Grandstand: Mansfield

Newport County natter & football chatter.
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mad norm

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Re: Grandstand: Mansfield

Postby mad norm » February 14th, 2018, 5:36 pm

JonD wrote:
George Cod wrote:
CB. wrote:Ben Tozer on the bench

Ben Toner referee.

Is Ben Dover filming it?


I just wanted to acknowledge this good gag, made before the floodgates opened last night.

:cheers:
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SJG99

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Re: Grandstand: Mansfield

Postby SJG99 » February 14th, 2018, 9:06 pm

Stan A. Einstein wrote:
SJG99 wrote:
Ok, prove it. Post absolutely anything, anywhere, other than your previous post, that has any journalist, manager, pundit, or anyone else indicating that when a team loses 6 matches (not 5, not 7) the manager is sacked "as a rule of thumb".


Very few managers will survive six consecutive defeats. Just look at the sackings so far this season, or any season for that matter.


I have carefully noted that you have not proven anything, and clearly can't as you know you made it up. However, in the interests of not contributing to the malaise after a disappointing result, I'm happy to accept that what you meant was "it's unlikely a manager will survive 6 defeats" as mentioned above, rather than it being some kind of rule that everyone who loses 6 games gets sacked because that's basically the done thing, which is what you said the first time.

Either way, my opinion is that Flynn's job is not, and should not be, in question for at least another month's worth of defeats.

Now can we get back to wildly speculating why there might be a problem? :lol:
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Re: Grandstand: Mansfield

Postby SJG99 » February 14th, 2018, 9:19 pm

Harps62 wrote:Why week in week out are we hoofing the ball up to Padraig.
Thought this team of ours could play a bit on the ground.
Poor fella albeit pretty good in the air is also slow and out on his own up there.
Just does not make any sense.
Daft thing is possibly our best lad in the air is our smallest player Dan


We've been hoofing the ball all season - it actually got much more pronounced after Kewell got narky about it. I was whinging about it back in September (maybe October?), whilst pointing out that we'd scored a lot of shots from outside the box and that that wasn't sustainable.

Hoofing at Amond is admittedly a new thing as he wasn't on the pitch that much earlier in the season, though I can't say I'd really noticed it that much, our hoofs tend to be out wide with the defence conceding throws (as Nouble doesn't try and head them but gets in the way) and us gaining distance rather than maintaining possession.

I think part of the recent problem has been certain players aren't being rested when they clearly need it (Bennett is up and down almost in line with his recovery time between matches, for instance), and others seeing a lack of rotation and losing the will to push for the team - Owen-Evans seems a particularly unfortunate victim of this, having played well when used over Christmas/New Year.

Not being used at Wembley must have been a kick in the teeth for some of the fringe players and some of that could be bringing the mood down a little too.
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Re: Grandstand: Mansfield

Postby Harps62 » February 14th, 2018, 9:19 pm

Blimey we seem to be having a week of nit picking on the forum.
If every comment has to be proven rock solid I think there would be very few comments on here at all.
Its all about opinions and the odd fact.
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Re: Grandstand: Mansfield

Postby SJG99 » February 14th, 2018, 9:35 pm

Harps62 wrote:Blimey we seem to be having a week of nit picking on the forum.
If every comment has to be proven rock solid I think there would be very few comments on here at all.
Its all about opinions and the odd fact.


So are we hoofing it at Amond or just hoofing it forward generally in your opinion?
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penycwm county

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Re: Grandstand: Mansfield

Postby penycwm county » February 14th, 2018, 9:42 pm

I dont give a flying f**k who the ball is hoofed to, the issue is that's its not working, time for a different tactic.
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Re: Grandstand: Mansfield

Postby Bonson&Hunt » February 14th, 2018, 9:54 pm

When was or has been hoofing a tactic?
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Re: Grandstand: Mansfield

Postby Harps62 » February 14th, 2018, 10:04 pm

SJG99 wrote:
Harps62 wrote:Blimey we seem to be having a week of nit picking on the forum.
If every comment has to be proven rock solid I think there would be very few comments on here at all.
Its all about opinions and the odd fact.


So are we hoofing it at Amond or just hoofing it forward generally in your opinion?

Anywhere basically in the hope that Padraig might be somewhere in the vicinity.
Its not his fault by the way before you try that one.
Joe a great shot stopper just belts it up field, some game plan that is.
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Re: Grandstand: Mansfield

Postby SJG99 » February 14th, 2018, 10:06 pm

Bonson&Hunt wrote:When was or has been hoofing a tactic?


Wimbledon (and indeed most teams) in the 80s, John Beck's Cambridge in the early 90s...
...basically anyone who believe Charles Hughes' poorly-researched "direct football" mantra in the 80s and early 90s (and Charles Reep before him).

It's not a complicated tactic, but it's still a tactic...

http://www.wsc.co.uk/the-archive/918-Pl ... grim-reep-
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Re: Grandstand: Mansfield

Postby SJG99 » February 14th, 2018, 10:18 pm

Harps62 wrote:
SJG99 wrote:
Harps62 wrote:Blimey we seem to be having a week of nit picking on the forum.
If every comment has to be proven rock solid I think there would be very few comments on here at all.
Its all about opinions and the odd fact.


So are we hoofing it at Amond or just hoofing it forward generally in your opinion?

Anywhere basically in the hope that Padraig might be somewhere in the vicinity.
Its not his fault by the way before you try that one.
Joe a great shot stopper just belts it up field, some game plan that is.


No-one suggested it was Amond's fault.

I'm not sure there's much expectation that even the world's greatest ever League Two keeper (whoever that might be) is going to be doing much more than helping the ball up the pitch.

Even with analytics showing that in the Premier League passing the ball from the back is a much less risky approach than constantly giving the opposition a 50/50 chance of winning the ball back immediately, the skill levels are that much lower in L2 that we can't make the assumption the same approach (keep possession, play it from the back) would actually succeed at this level.

Playing the percentages here consists of keeping the ball as far away from the goal as possible, rather than necessarily at the feet of our players.
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Re: Grandstand: Mansfield

Postby Harps62 » February 14th, 2018, 11:12 pm

You are so correct - (Not)
What we need to do is keep the ball "as far away from our goal as possible rather than at the feet of our players"
I cannot believe that.
No point to "keep possession as it wouldn't actually succeed at this level"
Gee Wiz.
Sorry but that is unbelievable.
We are talking about full time professional players here.
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Exile 1976

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Re: Grandstand: Mansfield

Postby Exile 1976 » February 14th, 2018, 11:46 pm

The vast majority of keepers 'belt it upfield' , just look at Pipe & Butler, very rarely looking for a quick ball off Day, most of the time with their backs to him.
We'd all love to be able to play like Man City & Barcelona but not everyone can.
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Re: Grandstand: Mansfield

Postby Harps62 » February 14th, 2018, 11:49 pm

Exile 1976 wrote:The vast majority of keepers 'belt it upfield' , just look at Pipe & Butler, very rarely looking for a quick ball off Day, most of the time with their backs to him.
We'd all love to be able to play like Man City & Barcelona but not everyone can.

The only one who does try and start from the back is Mickey and sometimes Ben W but that's probably taught him at Brighton.
Trying to think one of our recent home games and the keeper was trying to do a Spurs on us.
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Re: Grandstand: Mansfield

Postby SJG99 » February 15th, 2018, 8:02 pm

Harps62 wrote:You are so correct - (Not)
What we need to do is keep the ball "as far away from our goal as possible rather than at the feet of our players"
I cannot believe that.
No point to "keep possession as it wouldn't actually succeed at this level"
Gee Wiz.
Sorry but that is unbelievable.
We are talking about full time professional players here.


I'm talking about the specific instance of the keeper passing the ball to defenders and passing the ball on the ground from defenders through midfield up the pitch. If you think that isn't a high risk strategy given the built-in defects that all players at this level have, then I don't know what League Two football you've been watching.

Whether it's what we should be doing or not, it's what we have been doing, in the main... would be interesting to see if anyone's done similar analytics investigation for the lower leagues, probably don't have the footage to even tag the data and there's almost certainly not the money to justify the investment from the companies that actually market the data.
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Re: Grandstand: Mansfield

Postby Cornish Exile » February 15th, 2018, 8:27 pm

SJG99 wrote:
Harps62 wrote:You are so correct - (Not)
What we need to do is keep the ball "as far away from our goal as possible rather than at the feet of our players"
I cannot believe that.
No point to "keep possession as it wouldn't actually succeed at this level"
Gee Wiz.
Sorry but that is unbelievable.
We are talking about full time professional players here.


I'm talking about the specific instance of the keeper passing the ball to defenders and passing the ball on the ground from defenders through midfield up the pitch. If you think that isn't a high risk strategy given the built-in defects that all players at this level have, then I don't know what League Two football you've been watching.

Whether it's what we should be doing or not, it's what we have been doing, in the main... would be interesting to see if anyone's done similar analytics investigation for the lower leagues, probably don't have the footage to even tag the data and there's almost certainly not the money to justify the investment from the companies that actually market the data.


I agree completely. Joe Day is fully aware of the inability of some defenders to pass the ball accurately and chooses to opt for distance.
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