I have always subscribed to the idea that Accrington must be brilliantly run, but it's stretching things a bit to believe they can do quite so well with no owner subsidy on an average home gate below 1,600 with no cup run and no big outbound transfers I can think of.

The size of Newport is such that we should be a Championship/League 1 team. Like Swansea, like Preston. To make the Premier League we would need to massively over achieve. To be in League 2 is to underachieve. In the short to medium term we must aim higher.

Rob in his manifesto stated that he wished to develop County into a Championship team. Doing it is harder than saying it but it is time to ask the important question.

What are we going to make? It happen or an excuse?

If Darren Jones is coaching the defenders then please ship them off across the severn.

One of the worst, most sluggish and useless defenders we ever had.

Nearly went down because of players like him so whatever he'll be churning off his conveyor belt of local talent is welcome to seek their fortunes elsewhere.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:The size of Newport is such that we should be a Championship/League 1 team.

Absolute can o' worms this one. Due to the nature of population stats it's quite difficult to pull together a list of "places" to begin with and therefore even more difficult to determine where should and shouldn't have teams, never mind successful ones. I guess logically if we took the ONS data on metropolitan areas (London Boroughs being a problem here) and allocated the populations to the nearest clubs (or no club, see below) that might work, but frankly I don't have the inclination...

To challenge that Newport should have a Championship team, for instance Dudley has a population of 310k, Salford 216k (though there is a fairly well-known club very nearby), Croydon 331k (and Crystal Palace is outside the city boundary there too), and Warrington and Gateshead also don't have league clubs but have bigger populations than Newport.

Here's some stuff from 2003 on a similar subject: https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... edge.sport

and some Prem stats about %age of population vs number of fans http://www.itv.com/news/2015-05-29/west ... er-league/ on a related note.

SJG99 wrote:

Stan A. Einstein wrote:The size of Newport is such that we should be a Championship/League 1 team.

Absolute can o' worms this one. Due to the nature of population stats it's quite difficult to pull together a list of "places" to begin with and therefore even more difficult to determine where should and shouldn't have teams, never mind successful ones. I guess logically if we took the ONS data on metropolitan areas (London Boroughs being a problem here) and allocated the populations to the nearest clubs (or no club, see below) that might work, but frankly I don't have the inclination...

To challenge that Newport should have a Championship team, for instance Dudley has a population of 310k, Salford 216k (though there is a fairly well-known club very nearby), Croydon 331k (and Crystal Palace is outside the city boundary there too), and Warrington and Gateshead also don't have league clubs but have bigger populations than Newport.

Here's some stuff from 2003 on a similar subject: https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... edge.sport

and some Prem stats about %age of population vs number of fans http://www.itv.com/news/2015-05-29/west ... er-league/ on a related note.

You are correct when you state that Warrington population is larger than Newpôrt, but not Gateshead. Gateshead is similar but nearly 25,000 lower than the mighty 'Port.

The population argument is totally ridiculous.

Alan G Bryant wrote:The population argument is totally ridiculous.

Why? If you have a larger catchment area, then you have greater potential to tap in to those who want to see football. It doesn't guarantee anything but it does give potential. To say it is totally ridiculous, hmmm.

Alan G Bryant wrote:The population argument is totally ridiculous.

Why do you say that?

I try to base my reasoning as to why I think it matters on evidence.

Big cities London, Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle, tend to have clubs in the Premier League. However Birmingham (if you don't count WBA) and Leeds show it's possible to underachieve. Medium sized towns, Preston, Ipswich, Blackpool, Portsmouth etc League clubs. Steeple Bumstead, Hatfield Peveral, Bolnhurst and other small villages you have never heard of tend not to play League football. I say that is an indication that size matters.

By all means disagree but I am really looking forward to hearing your explanation as to why.

Stan A. Einstein wrote: I try to base my reasoning as to why I think it matters on evidence.

Big cities London, Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle, tend to have clubs in the Premier League. However Birmingham (if you don't count WBA) and Leeds show it's possible to underachieve. Medium sized towns, Preston, Ipswich, Blackpool, Portsmouth etc League clubs. Steeple Bumstead, Hatfield Peveral, Bolnhurst and other small villages you have never heard of tend not to play League football. I say that is an indication that size matters.

By all means disagree but I am really looking forward to hearing your explanation as to why.

And if you look at the 20 towns just below Newport in the population table your indication that size matters in the assessment of achievement is disproved:

Birkenhead, Merseyside – 142,968
St Alban’s, Hertfordshire – 141,899
Hastings, East Sussex – 139,271
Bedford, Bedfordshire – 137,451
Gloucester, Gloucestershire – 136,362
West Bromwich, West Midlands – 135,618
Worcester, Worcestershire – 134,073
Sale, Greater Manchester – 132,022
Nuneaton, Warwickshire – 125,805
Watford, Hertfordshire – 125,707
Exeter, Devon – 124,610
Solihull, West Midlands – 123,187
Chester, Cheshire – 120,622
High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire – 120,256
Gateshead, Tyne and Wear – 120,046
Southport, Merseyside – 118,604
Rotherham, South Yorkshire – 117,618
Cheltenham, Gloucestershire – 116,447
Hove, East Sussex – 114,479
Eastbourne, East Sussex – 112,906

If you include Tranmere as Birkenhead, only seven have football league clubs, only three of which are in higher leagues.


Even the 20 towns directly above Newport in population only have ten clubs in higher leagues:

Norwich, Norfolk – 186,682
Middlesbrough, North Yorkshire – 184,773
Peterborough, Cambridgeshire – 178,869
Southend-on-Sea, Essex – 175,547
Walsall, West Midlands – 174,141
Colchester, Essex – 173,074
Mansfield, Nottinghamshire – 169,987
Telford, Shropshire – 166,641
Ipswich, Suffolk – 164,331
Huddersfield, West Yorkshire – 162,949
Dundee – 160,309
Oxford, Oxfordshire – 159,994
Doncaster, South Yorkshire – 158,141
Chelmsford, Essex – 157,072
Cambridge, Cambridgeshire – 156,252
Maidstone, Kent – 155,608
Slough, Berkshire – 155,298
Poole, Dorset – 154,718
Blackburn, Lancashire – 152,516
Chesterfield, Derbyshire – 150,676
Blackpool, Lancashire – 147,663

If you also take into account the wilderness years, loss of an entire generation of fans, no owned ground and supporter competition from 2 rugby clubs at the same venue then you can't argue anything other than the club is overachieving.

whoareya wrote:

Stan A. Einstein wrote: I try to base my reasoning as to why I think it matters on evidence.

Big cities London, Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle, tend to have clubs in the Premier League. However Birmingham (if you don't count WBA) and Leeds show it's possible to underachieve. Medium sized towns, Preston, Ipswich, Blackpool, Portsmouth etc League clubs. Steeple Bumstead, Hatfield Peveral, Bolnhurst and other small villages you have never heard of tend not to play League football. I say that is an indication that size matters.

By all means disagree but I am really looking forward to hearing your explanation as to why.

And if you look at the 20 towns just below Newport in the population table your indication that size matters in the assessment of achievement is disproved:

Birkenhead, Merseyside – 142,968
St Alban’s, Hertfordshire – 141,899
Hastings, East Sussex – 139,271
Bedford, Bedfordshire – 137,451
Gloucester, Gloucestershire – 136,362
West Bromwich, West Midlands – 135,618
Worcester, Worcestershire – 134,073
Sale, Greater Manchester – 132,022
Nuneaton, Warwickshire – 125,805
Watford, Hertfordshire – 125,707
Exeter, Devon – 124,610
Solihull, West Midlands – 123,187
Chester, Cheshire – 120,622
High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire – 120,256
Gateshead, Tyne and Wear – 120,046
Southport, Merseyside – 118,604
Rotherham, South Yorkshire – 117,618
Cheltenham, Gloucestershire – 116,447
Hove, East Sussex – 114,479
Eastbourne, East Sussex – 112,906

If you include Tranmere as Birkenhead, only seven have football league clubs, only three of which are in higher leagues.


Even the 20 towns directly above Newport in population only have ten clubs in higher leagues:

Norwich, Norfolk – 186,682
Middlesbrough, North Yorkshire – 184,773
Peterborough, Cambridgeshire – 178,869
Southend-on-Sea, Essex – 175,547
Walsall, West Midlands – 174,141
Colchester, Essex – 173,074
Mansfield, Nottinghamshire – 169,987
Telford, Shropshire – 166,641
Ipswich, Suffolk – 164,331
Huddersfield, West Yorkshire – 162,949
Dundee – 160,309
Oxford, Oxfordshire – 159,994
Doncaster, South Yorkshire – 158,141
Chelmsford, Essex – 157,072
Cambridge, Cambridgeshire – 156,252
Maidstone, Kent – 155,608
Slough, Berkshire – 155,298
Poole, Dorset – 154,718
Blackburn, Lancashire – 152,516
Chesterfield, Derbyshire – 150,676
Blackpool, Lancashire – 147,663

If you also take into account the wilderness years, loss of an entire generation of fans, no owned ground and supporter competition from 2 rugby clubs at the same venue then you can't argue anything other than the club is overachieving.

The point remains the same. Although it is possible to both under and overachieve.

As for the size of towns per se you need to make sure you use the same criteria. Newport has a population of about 145,000. However the Newport conurbation is around 325,000. The county of Gwent is one of the most populous areas of the UK. If you include just Newport and Cwmbran you immediately have a population of over 200,000.

As for the 25 years out of the league argument, as I say it's whether you make things happen or whether you make an excuse. I think it's clear which camp you are in.

Unfortunately we have fans who would rather us stay still,it's a set mentality with some,no ambition,always we can't achieve that mindset.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:
The point remains the same. Although it is possible to both under and overachieve.

As for the size of towns per se you need to make sure you use the same criteria. Newport has a population of about 145,000. However the Newport conurbation is around 325,000. The county of Gwent is one of the most populous areas of the UK. If you include just Newport and Cwmbran you immediately have a population of over 200,000.

As for the 25 years out of the league argument, as I say it's whether you make things happen or whether you make an excuse. I think it's clear which camp you are in.

So you use cities, towns and villages in your viewpoint, then move the goalpost when it gets disproved?

Bad loser as always.

Who are ya your analogy is odd.are you angry and aggressive by nature?

The towns above and below do not wash as virtually everyone has a league club just up the road a bus ride away in most cases.
eg Sale for goodness sake I can walk to Old Trafford from there.
Hove thought the old name was Brighton & Hove etc etc.
Our catchment area is way above the figure being tossed up on here also.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

Alan G Bryant wrote:The population argument is totally ridiculous.

Why do you say that?

I try to base my reasoning as to why I think it matters on evidence.

Big cities London, Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle, tend to have clubs in the Premier League. However Birmingham (if you don't count WBA) and Leeds show it's possible to underachieve. Medium sized towns, Preston, Ipswich, Blackpool, Portsmouth etc League clubs. Steeple Bumstead, Hatfield Peveral, Bolnhurst and other small villages you have never heard of tend not to play League football. I say that is an indication that size matters.

By all means disagree but I am really looking forward to hearing your explanation as to why.

In my opinion there are many factors but mainly history, success and passion. You cannot assume that because there is a large population we should have big passionate crowds. There is simply not the passion for football in Newport. You could even argue that there is not the passion for Rugby, our national sport. Take the Dragons attendances and Cardiff blues attendances for instance and compare them to Ulster, Munster or Leinster, I would bet they are not even close. The regions in Ireland have that historical passion and sense of togetherness, much the same as the big football towns/ cities you mention. The dragons trying to generate passion with their ridiculous men of Gwent chant is embarrassing. You are more likely to be called an Ulsterman than a Gwent man, terms like newportonian or valley boy are much more commonplace in this region.

The passion for football and even regional rugby in Newport is simply not there.