Harps62 wrote:The towns above and below do not wash as virtually everyone has a league club just up the road a bus ride away in most cases.
eg Sale for goodness sake I can walk to Old Trafford from there.
Hove thought the old name was Brighton & Hove etc etc.
Our catchment area is way above the figure being tossed up on here also.

Nope

You might be able to walk to Old Trafford from Sale, but you've overlooked the separate populations of Greater Manchester – 520,739 and Salford, Greater Manchester – 239,019
Also Brighton is separate to Hove, - with a population of – 273,369

And you've ignored the obvious impact from the loss of an entire generation of fans, who now only see the Premier League as appaeling, of competing with 2 rugby clubs at the same venue, and Cardiff a bus ride away for the catchment area you perceive to exist.

Alan G Bryant wrote:
There is simply not the passion for football in Newport.

You're right Alan. I hadn't thought of that. The problem is that the people of Newport are different from everywhere else. This how it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be.

Thank God there are people like you who are there to enlighten me. Up until now I had thought that the people of Newport were pretty much the same as those elsewhere. I had thought that if those who run our club had a bit of ambition, a bit of drive, a refusal to accept second best, that County could succeed. I see now that the people of Newport are losers. Thanks.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

Alan G Bryant wrote:
There is simply not the passion for football in Newport.

You're right Alan. I hadn't thought of that. The problem is that the people of Newport are different from everywhere else. This how it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be.

Thank God there are people like you who are there to enlighten me. Up until now I had thought that the people of Newport were pretty much the same as those elsewhere. I had thought that if those who run our club had a bit of ambition, a bit of drive, a refusal to accept second best, that County could succeed. I see now that the people of Newport are losers. Thanks.

Pretty difficult when the likes of you berate the club at every opportunity.
You convieniently ignore the the work in the communtuty the club does , the constant hospital and school visits by players , the players interaction with our young supporters, all in an effort to grow the fan base.

Tell me , Accrington are over achieving, are they a better run club than us you think ?
If not , can you provide some examples of well run clubs?

Alan G Bryant wrote:

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

Alan G Bryant wrote:
There is simply not the passion for football in Newport.

You're right Alan. I hadn't thought of that. The problem is that the people of Newport are different from everywhere else. This how it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be.

Thank God there are people like you who are there to enlighten me. Up until now I had thought that the people of Newport were pretty much the same as those elsewhere. I had thought that if those who run our club had a bit of ambition, a bit of drive, a refusal to accept second best, that County could succeed. I see now that the people of Newport are losers. Thanks.

Pretty difficult when the likes of you berate the club at every opportunity.
You convieniently ignore the the work in the communtuty the club does , the constant hospital and school visits by players , the players interaction with our young supporters, all in an effort to grow the fan base.

Tell me , Accrington are over achieving, are they a better run club than us you think ?
If not , can you provide some examples of well run clubs?

Clubs who make the most of what they have. Clubs that develop infrastructure in terms of having stadiums which add to the match day atmosphere.

Swansea, , Bournemouth, Reading, Wigan, Watford are clubs who I recall playing regularly when I was a young man. Back in the 1980's I recall County sticking four goals on Sheffield United, Blackpool and Hull City in league matches. People of an earlier vintage than me will recall the likes of Norwich, Southampton and Crystal Palace being regular opposition in the 1950's. I would suggest that the way these clubs have kicked on would suggest that are well run.

Whilst I applaud the efforts of the club where they do interact with the public, visits to hospitals, schools etc for which praise is deserved, the clubs record with the charging of monies to parents of academy kids who wait for months for the kit to turn up is on the debit side.

As for " berate" ever heard the expression shooting the messenger?

Hopefully that answers your question.

pembsexile wrote:

SJG99 wrote:

Stan A. Einstein wrote:The size of Newport is such that we should be a Championship/League 1 team.

Absolute can o' worms this one. Due to the nature of population stats it's quite difficult to pull together a list of "places" to begin with and therefore even more difficult to determine where should and shouldn't have teams, never mind successful ones. I guess logically if we took the ONS data on metropolitan areas (London Boroughs being a problem here) and allocated the populations to the nearest clubs (or no club, see below) that might work, but frankly I don't have the inclination...

To challenge that Newport should have a Championship team, for instance Dudley has a population of 310k, Salford 216k (though there is a fairly well-known club very nearby), Croydon 331k (and Crystal Palace is outside the city boundary there too), and Warrington and Gateshead also don't have league clubs but have bigger populations than Newport.

Here's some stuff from 2003 on a similar subject: https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... edge.sport

and some Prem stats about %age of population vs number of fans http://www.itv.com/news/2015-05-29/west ... er-league/ on a related note.

You are correct when you state that Warrington population is larger than Newpôrt, but not Gateshead. Gateshead is similar but nearly 25,000 lower than the mighty 'Port.

Depends what you count and what you don't.

pembsexile wrote:

Alan G Bryant wrote:The population argument is totally ridiculous.

Why? If you have a larger catchment area, then you have greater potential to tap in to those who want to see football. It doesn't guarantee anything but it does give potential. To say it is totally ridiculous, hmmm.

Larger population areas tend to split across more than one club though. And no-one has come up with anything resembling a list of who should be successful anyway. When someone produces a list of populations and relates it to catchment areas, then there's a debate to be had, but "Newport is big therefore club should be better" isn't even worth considering as a straw man.

Back when I was in my early youth .
The standing joke in our house as me and my dear dad set off down the hill was my late mother saying has Mr Keith Saunders rang to see what time you want the game to kick off.
He was the secretary for years in the Lucas era.
When we were near the bottom we would struggle for £2K attendance but a bit of success and hey presto fullish house.
Nothing changes
Spurs in the Cup, Notts County to stay in the league full houses.
Same club last week struggling despite everything to get £3K.
Success full house.
Mediocrity the opposite.
Nothing has changed in 50 years plus.
The secret is simple success.
Catchment area massive
Bollocks to say we are not a football town.
Know so many friends who watch City every game because they like a bit of success,

whoareya wrote:

Harps62 wrote:The towns above and below do not wash as virtually everyone has a league club just up the road a bus ride away in most cases.
eg Sale for goodness sake I can walk to Old Trafford from there.
Hove thought the old name was Brighton & Hove etc etc.
Our catchment area is way above the figure being tossed up on here also.

Nope

You might be able to walk to Old Trafford from Sale, but you've overlooked the separate populations of Greater Manchester – 520,739 and Salford, Greater Manchester – 239,019
Also Brighton is separate to Hove, - with a population of – 273,369

And you've ignored the obvious impact from the loss of an entire generation of fans, who now only see the Premier League as appaeling, of competing with 2 rugby clubs at the same venue, and Cardiff a bus ride away for the catchment area you perceive to exist.

Which I why I've said until we define what catchment areas are, who potentially is a fan, etc. there's not much point having this discussion. Newport population 145,000 or 325,000? Why use the wider population for Newport but ignore it for comparable areas? The suggestion that "Gwent is one of the most populous areas in the UK" is utterly ridiculous. Yeah, sure it is. Apart from the two other cities within 20 miles as the crow flies and their wider areas...

Then there are all the practical modifiers like trains from Gwent valleys going to Cardiff, the utter unlikelihood of people choosing to follow Southern League or Conference South-level clubs but no-one in fully professional football as well, the chance of picking up fans from the media coverage when you're never in the media, etc.

Harps62 wrote: Catchment area massive
Know so many friends who watch City every game because they like a bit of success,

Completely undermined your own argument there then. Because that means they're in Cardiff's catchment area (too).

Here's a fun one:
Completely ignores things like transport infrastructure though (note County's excellent reach into southern mid-Wales, and various other places where people would not have the remotest interest - all just because Cardiff happens to be slightly further south).

Stan

In 2015 Accrington had a private buyer pay off £1.2m of their debt, he also provided £600k of working capital, undoubtedly he has subsided their lack of crowds over the past two seasons, he talks openly of a £300k shortfall every summer , I would estimate that his personal outlay is well over £2m, probably closer to £3m.

In 2015 we donated just under £250k to save our football club. This summer we could reimburse the supporters, pay off the debt to our former chairman , still have £250k in the bank and still be in the same league as Accrington Stanley.

What do you consider a well run club? Have you any other examples?

SJG99 wrote:

Harps62 wrote: Catchment area massive
Know so many friends who watch City every game because they like a bit of success,

Completely undermined your own argument there then. Because that means they're in Cardiff's catchment area (too).

No it doesn't because guess what they play home opposite weeks to us.
Guess what every one of them came to the Spurs game and also brought their kids along too.
Simple isn't it.
Success and we have a full house and more.

It will never happen Exile.
Been coming for 60 years nothing changes.
Used to treble the gate on Boxing day and the 60% increase would never be seen until the next Boxing day.
Catch 22.
Without success no chance.
Daft thing is Accrington have been good this year with no increase in the gate.
County would be different winning at home every game and we would have £4K plus minimum ever match maybe more.

SJG99 wrote:
Absolute can o' worms this one. Due to the nature of population stats it's quite difficult to pull together a list of "places" .......

To challenge that Newport should have a Championship team, for instance Dudley has a population of 310k, Salford 216k (though there is a fairly well-known club very nearby), Croydon 331k (and Crystal Palace is outside the city boundary there too), and Warrington and Gateshead also don't have league clubs but have bigger population.

Salford. Has a football team. They are called Manchester United. Dudley is full of people who support a team who play a mile away, West Bromwich Albion. Crystal Palace play in SE 25. Warrington has a population of less than Newport/Cwmbran however more importantly Warrington has doubled it's population in the last 40 years as it is a new town and it's population has relocated from nearby Liverpool. Gateshead town is smaller than Newport. Many small towns are included as Gateshead but if you do the same with Newport and include Caerleon, Risca etc ,Newport remains higher. Croydon tends to give supporters as you say to Palace.

Having said that you are correct in that it is difficult to pull together population statistics. My point is that Newport has the size potential to be far more successful than we are. I take the view that we need to stop accepting being second rate and most importantly we need to stop making excuses.

Newport stretches continuously past Risca to Newbridge without a break, Caerleon, Cwmbran and onto Pontypool.
Still we get £3k turn out.
All about success.