Cup revenue

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allontheamber

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Cup revenue

Postby allontheamber » January 9th, 2019, 12:22 pm

I don't know what the additional revenue from our cup run last year was, other than it must have been substantial. However I can't see any tangible improvements in the club as a result of it. We have a smaller and probably cheaper squad this year and there appears to be, on the face of it, no improvements within the club infrastructure.
Does this mean we are now reliant on getting to at least the third round every year with associated TV revenue simply to keep our heads above water.
If so even with added Trust income it seems our club is unsustainable at L2 level.
I'm loving all the exposure we are getting but it still leaves me feeling uneasy.
Perhaps I am just becoming a worrier but after the our huge successes over the last two seasons I would love to see some positive developments other than needing all this extra money simply maintain the status quo.
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Stan A. Einstein

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Re: Cup revenue

Postby Stan A. Einstein » January 9th, 2019, 12:31 pm

allontheamber wrote:I don't know what the additional revenue from our cup run last year was, other than it must have been substantial. However I can't see any tangible improvements in the club as a result of it. We have a smaller and probably cheaper squad this year and there appears to be, on the face of it, no improvements within the club infrastructure.
Does this mean we are now reliant on getting to at least the third round every year with associated TV revenue simply to keep our heads above water.
If so even with added Trust income it seems our club is unsustainable at L2 level.
I'm loving all the exposure we are getting but it still leaves me feeling uneasy.
Perhaps I am just becoming a worrier but after the our huge successes over the last two seasons I would love to see some positive developments other than needing all this extra money simply maintain the status quo.


Being County supporters teaches us to worry.

I agree, we spend too much on building a short term team, too little on a long term club with solid foundations. Last year Michael Flynn said he wanted the Cup run to have a legacy, He wanted a training ground developed. For me a stadium being developed is more important but that shouldn't deflect from the basic course on which I think Flynn is right. That being develop infrastructure.

Stadium or training ground is a legitimate debate. Stadium/training ground or nothing, isn't.
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OLDCROMWELLIAN

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Re: Cup revenue

Postby OLDCROMWELLIAN » January 9th, 2019, 12:36 pm

allontheamber wrote:I don't know what the additional revenue from our cup run last year was, other than it must have been substantial. However I can't see any tangible improvements in the club as a result of it. We have a smaller and probably cheaper squad this year and there appears to be, on the face of it, no improvements within the club infrastructure.
Does this mean we are now reliant on getting to at least the third round every year with associated TV revenue simply to keep our heads above water.
If so even with added Trust income it seems our club is unsustainable at L2 level.
I'm loving all the exposure we are getting but it still leaves me feeling uneasy.
Perhaps I am just becoming a worrier but after the our huge successes over the last two seasons I would love to see some positive developments other than needing all this extra money simply maintain the status quo.

Yes, similar thoughts have occured to me also. My understanding is we lost circa £350k season ending June 2017, but are expecting a small profit for season ending June 2018, because of our £700k 'windfall' from our cup run. Are the accounts for that season published in April 2019? Assuming we are to make approx. £400k from our cup run this season, plus additional Trust income, can we be confident of at least breaking even this season. I share your concerns for the long term sustainability of the club if we have to rely on cup runs, or selling players(which seems increasingly unlikely)
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Re: Cup revenue

Postby rncfc » January 9th, 2019, 12:50 pm

I've made similar points in other threads over recent weeks and months. If the trust really want to maximise fan donations, there needs to be a more honest dialogue opened up with its members. Redacted board meeting minutes create the illusion of transparency, but the reality is that it's a sham.

There are massively important issues surrounding the WRU and our future at RP, as well as the vortex known as the club bank account. Lincoln City got to the quarter finals once and appear to have been able to secure themselves an extra 5,000 fans out of nowhere, plans for a new stadium and enough money in the bank to buy the L2 title. We get four huge games, all on national TV, and all we've managed to do is beg the fans to donate more money and not run the risk of going bust for one season. I really don't understand why this is, and if I'm going to up trust contributions from the bare minimum (which I could do), I want to know what the five year business plan looks like. Because it it involves a ground move, we need to be doing our utmost to find someone who can pay for it.
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Re: Cup revenue

Postby Amberexile » January 9th, 2019, 12:54 pm

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote:
allontheamber wrote:I don't know what the additional revenue from our cup run last year was, other than it must have been substantial. However I can't see any tangible improvements in the club as a result of it. We have a smaller and probably cheaper squad this year and there appears to be, on the face of it, no improvements within the club infrastructure.
Does this mean we are now reliant on getting to at least the third round every year with associated TV revenue simply to keep our heads above water.
If so even with added Trust income it seems our club is unsustainable at L2 level.
I'm loving all the exposure we are getting but it still leaves me feeling uneasy.
Perhaps I am just becoming a worrier but after the our huge successes over the last two seasons I would love to see some positive developments other than needing all this extra money simply maintain the status quo.

Yes, similar thoughts have occured to me also. My understanding is we lost circa £350k season ending June 2017, but are expecting a small profit for season ending June 2018, because of our £700k 'windfall' from our cup run. Are the accounts for that season published in April 2019? Assuming we are to make approx. £400k from our cup run this season, plus additional Trust income, can we be confident of at least breaking even this season. I share your concerns for the long term sustainability of the club if we have to rely on cup runs, or selling players(which seems increasingly unlikely)


Good questions that I guess nobody will be prepared to answer fully on the messageboard.
We must be due an open meeting sometime soon although I've not heard one mentioned for a while. The alternative is to take advantage of the board members who make themselves available for discussion in the marquee before each home match I suppose.
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Fourthousand

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Re: Cup revenue

Postby Fourthousand » January 9th, 2019, 12:59 pm

rncfc wrote:I've made similar points in other threads over recent weeks and months. If the trust really want to maximise fan donations, there needs to be a more honest dialogue opened up with its members. Redacted board meeting minutes create the illusion of transparency, but the reality is that it's a sham.

There are massively important issues surrounding the WRU and our future at RP, as well as the vortex known as the club bank account. Lincoln City got to the quarter finals once and appear to have been able to secure themselves an extra 5,000 fans out of nowhere, plans for a new stadium and enough money in the bank to buy the L2 title. We get four huge games, all on national TV, and all we've managed to do is beg the fans to donate more money and not run the risk of going bust for one season. I really don't understand why this is, and if I'm going to up trust contributions from the bare minimum (which I could do), I want to know what the five year business plan looks like. Because it it involves a ground move, we need to be doing our utmost to find someone who can pay for it.


This is not having a go because I share your concern. What would you do? Is there something else other than finding a benefactor?
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Stan A. Einstein

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Re: Cup revenue

Postby Stan A. Einstein » January 9th, 2019, 1:03 pm

We all know that there is a spectre at the feast. We are not certain of our tenure at Rodney Parade.

We know also that the Chairman of the Dragons, who are going to have a big say in our future has offered to talk to our supporters.

We all know said chairman is not only a very successful businessman but also the son of a regular contributor on here.

I accept it might be that talking gets us nowhere. Perhaps said chairman really only cares about the rugby and will offer us nothing. Yes he might indeed break his poor father's heart. (Assuming Highandwide has a heart to break.)

But please can somebody explain one tiny little thing. And my apologies for shouting.

WHAT POSSIBLE HARM CAN TALKING DO?.
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allontheamber

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Re: Cup revenue

Postby allontheamber » January 9th, 2019, 1:29 pm

Fourthousand wrote:
rncfc wrote:I've made similar points in other threads over recent weeks and months. If the trust really want to maximise fan donations, there needs to be a more honest dialogue opened up with its members. Redacted board meeting minutes create the illusion of transparency, but the reality is that it's a sham.

There are massively important issues surrounding the WRU and our future at RP, as well as the vortex known as the club bank account. Lincoln City got to the quarter finals once and appear to have been able to secure themselves an extra 5,000 fans out of nowhere, plans for a new stadium and enough money in the bank to buy the L2 title. We get four huge games, all on national TV, and all we've managed to do is beg the fans to donate more money and not run the risk of going bust for one season. I really don't understand why this is, and if I'm going to up trust contributions from the bare minimum (which I could do), I want to know what the five year business plan looks like. Because it it involves a ground move, we need to be doing our utmost to find someone who can pay for it.


This is not having a go because I share your concern. What would you do? Is there something else other than finding a benefactor?


To me our only way forward is Spytty and i don't mean the dog or turning the pitch through 90 degrees.
I know it's out of town but that doesn't seem to worry Oxford, Shrewsbury etc. I don't think Spytty is any further from the centre than Cardiff stadium or the Liberty stadium is from the centre of those towns.
Let's be honest with nothing to offer at present the likelihood of an investor with sufficient funds to build a new stadium coming forward is practically zero.
I genuinely believe the first thing we must do is to find a viable alternative venue for the Harriers and if necessary help fund that move. We then work with the Council on the redevelopment of Spytty without its running track.
Spytty already has much of the infrastructure in place and must be a more cost effective solution than finding/buying land and building new from the ground up.
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Re: Cup revenue

Postby The Cat » January 9th, 2019, 1:29 pm

I do know that the old bar amber is being upgraded in a bid to make players feel more comfortable. They currently use it as a base and Flynny's office is there, but it is in a poor state at the moment.
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Re: Cup revenue

Postby Stan A. Einstein » January 9th, 2019, 1:35 pm

allontheamber wrote:
To me our only way forward is Spytty and i don't mean the dog or turning the pitch through 90 degrees.
I know it's out of town but that doesn't seem to worry Oxford, Shrewsbury etc. I don't think Spytty is any further from the centre than Cardiff stadium or the Liberty stadium is from the centre of those towns.
Let's be honest with nothing to offer at present the likelihood of an investor with sufficient funds to build a new stadium coming forward is practically zero.
I genuinely believe the first thing we must do is to find a viable alternative venue for the Harriers and if necessary help fund that move. We then work with the Council on the redevelopment of Spytty without its running track.
Spytty already has much of the infrastructure in place and must be a more cost effective solution than finding/buying land and building new from the ground up.


My view is that for Dragons and County to share a stadium in which they have an equal stake is the best way forward. Whether as joint owners or with the local authority as landlords and joint tenants.

That may not be possible and if it isn't your suggestion has in my view. much to be said for it.
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Re: Cup revenue

Postby Amberexile » January 9th, 2019, 1:58 pm

Stan A. Einstein wrote:
allontheamber wrote:
To me our only way forward is Spytty and i don't mean the dog or turning the pitch through 90 degrees.
I know it's out of town but that doesn't seem to worry Oxford, Shrewsbury etc. I don't think Spytty is any further from the centre than Cardiff stadium or the Liberty stadium is from the centre of those towns.
Let's be honest with nothing to offer at present the likelihood of an investor with sufficient funds to build a new stadium coming forward is practically zero.
I genuinely believe the first thing we must do is to find a viable alternative venue for the Harriers and if necessary help fund that move. We then work with the Council on the redevelopment of Spytty without its running track.
Spytty already has much of the infrastructure in place and must be a more cost effective solution than finding/buying land and building new from the ground up.


My view is that for Dragons and County to share a stadium in which they have an equal stake is the best way forward. Whether as joint owners or with the local authority as landlords and joint tenants.

That may not be possible and if it isn't your suggestion has in my view. much to be said for it.


Neither the Dragons nor the County have any stake in the ownership of the stadium at the moment.
The WRU invested substantial funds to buy the stadium and continue to spend on its upkeep and improvement.
I can see an outside chance of the WRU "selling" the stadium end of the complex to the Dragons once their development plans for the cabbage patch are complete because that would be a wooden dollars transaction.
That being the case, they hold every card when it comes to naming the price for which we could buy a stake in the stadium and price us out of any involvement if they so desired.
By all means have the discussion but do it quickly and move on when it becomes a non-starter.
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Alan G Bryant

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Re: Cup revenue

Postby Alan G Bryant » January 9th, 2019, 2:00 pm

Stan A. Einstein wrote:We all know that there is a spectre at the feast. We are not certain of our tenure at Rodney Parade.

We know also that the Chairman of the Dragons, who are going to have a big say in our future has offered to talk to our supporters.

We all know said chairman is not only a very successful businessman but also the son of a regular contributor on here.

I accept it might be that talking gets us nowhere. Perhaps said chairman really only cares about the rugby and will offer us nothing. Yes he might indeed break his poor father's heart. (Assuming Highandwide has a heart to break.)

But please can somebody explain one tiny little thing. And my apologies for shouting.

WHAT POSSIBLE HARM CAN TALKING DO?.


I agree. There is also nothing stopping the Dragons chairman speaking to the County supporters if he feels he has anything relevant to say about our future, my guess is he has not.
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Fourthousand

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Re: Cup revenue

Postby Fourthousand » January 9th, 2019, 2:07 pm

OK - here's my two pennies worth:

The revenues are to small at present to reach or achieve sustainability nor do they provide for a real competitive playing budget and certainly not even close to dream about the purchase/development/contribution towards a new ground.

No banks loan to football clubs/ the council ain't going to help/ our landlords ain't going to help (different ball game and I see no benefactor on the horizon( I don't like that route anyway).

So we have to do it ourselves. Totally agree we need a 5 year Business Plan. For me that 5 year Business Plan should have one objective only - to grow REVENUE. I'll explain why:

I could simply say that without it everything else is just PIE IN THE SKY

We need to develop and turn on our consistent revenue streams that drive the bottom line. In turn that will help achieve sustainability and increase the playing budget and if they 'gush' then also into a ground fund (along with Cup windfalls).

So one idea for such a stream. Other clubs have put electronic advertising on main motorways (M4 for us) - they provide 'significant' revenues which drive the bottom line I.e. advertising monies PLUS we can promote our forthcoming fixtures PLUS awareness of our brand and in some instances our very existence = upside is potential increase in crowds/sponsorship. (Other clubs are doing this successfully). Imagine the deal we could offer then to sponsors.

So use our cup run money to invest in these as a one off capital expenditure to develop and grow a revenue steam year after year. Once we have this type of thing in place THEN we can plan what to do with any surplus cash but in the NOW don't waste any time on grounds or stadiums or playing in the Championship or finding a benefactor just focus every last mortal into driving revenue and the rest will come.

There.
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Stan A. Einstein

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Re: Cup revenue

Postby Stan A. Einstein » January 9th, 2019, 2:19 pm

Alan G Bryant wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:We all know that there is a spectre at the feast. We are not certain of our tenure at Rodney Parade.

We know also that the Chairman of the Dragons, who are going to have a big say in our future has offered to talk to our supporters.

We all know said chairman is not only a very successful businessman but also the son of a regular contributor on here.

I accept it might be that talking gets us nowhere. Perhaps said chairman really only cares about the rugby and will offer us nothing. Yes he might indeed break his poor father's heart. (Assuming Highandwide has a heart to break.)

But please can somebody explain one tiny little thing. And my apologies for shouting.

WHAT POSSIBLE HARM CAN TALKING DO?.


I agree. There is also nothing stopping the Dragons chairman speaking to the County supporters if he feels he has anything relevant to say about our future, my guess is he has not.


My understanding is that County have not taken him up on his offer. I will gladly be corrected if I am wrong.

As for what he has to say, a serious suggestion. Listen to what he has to say first of all. Before you make making any judgements. If you guess he has nothing to say, the likelihood is that nothing is what you will hear. We all tend to hear what we want to hear, and interpret from that.

A little story but true. Many years ago in a Newport and district under 14 league game, Pill YMCA defeated Toneville United 13-0.
At the end of the game the somewhat disheartened Toneville manager lambasted the team. At the goalkeeper he shouted, "And your performance was like nothing on earth" amongst other things.

Well the little goalkeeper left nearly in tears, nobody would even sit next to him on the mini-bus back to Bettws. But being a brave little lad he composed himself before going through the back door into the kitchen where his Mam was making the tea. "How did you get on?" asked the Mam. "Well we lost but the manager said I was out of this world."

Which helps prove two things. We all hear what we expect to hear. And even at 13 I was an arrogant little f@ck. :grin:
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Re: Cup revenue

Postby lowandhard » January 9th, 2019, 2:20 pm

rncfc wrote:I've made similar points in other threads over recent weeks and months. If the trust really want to maximise fan donations, there needs to be a more honest dialogue opened up with its members. Redacted board meeting minutes create the illusion of transparency, but the reality is that it's a sham.

There are massively important issues surrounding the WRU and our future at RP, as well as the vortex known as the club bank account. Lincoln City got to the quarter finals once and appear to have been able to secure themselves an extra 5,000 fans out of nowhere, plans for a new stadium and enough money in the bank to buy the L2 title. We get four huge games, all on national TV, and all we've managed to do is beg the fans to donate more money and not run the risk of going bust for one season. I really don't understand why this is, and if I'm going to up trust contributions from the bare minimum (which I could do), I want to know what the five year business plan looks like. Because it it involves a ground move, we need to be doing our utmost to find someone who can pay for it.


I think your post ably sums up the view of many fans, despite all the history of debate about communication, many aspects remain shrouded in mystery. We do know that last year historic debts were settled and that increased contributions are required to keep the club solvent. Fair enough, we are a fans owned club , so far so good. I think redaction of minutes need only be done for commercial reasons or in order not to breach data protection including personal details, we as fans and owners deserve as much transparency as possible. As an example, I believe we should be in receipt of relevant information as regards the state of play of our relationship with the WRU and our long term aspirations and strategy , including any possible council involvement. It is obvious that the latter are involved in the dynamic given their land gift to the WRU. We also deserve to know what , if any monies, we will have for club improvements.

This next bit is for Stan, yes I do just about have a heart mate though it has according to my surgeon been very much bypassed :grin: . Further, as regards whether my son would go so far as to break it, I’m certain that he wouldn’t and I can’t see what possible reasons he or the WRU would have to remove a revenue stream. Of course, the situation may change I don’t know and that’s why I think we should be kept in the picture by our football club. As far as I can imagine, the WRU are under no obligation to inform County fans directly, we should be getting information from our club and we should get it in a clear and timely fashion.

All this in my humble opinion.
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