I was about to write exactly the same. Thank you for saving me the bother.rncfc wrote:It's nice to think they need us, but the reality is that they probably don't.Lysaght Dancer wrote:If I was the WRU I would be negotiating with us for a 5 year extension on the agreement, as it will maintain the value of their asset, and it’s an asset that they will find difficult to sell.
They will find it extremely hard to get investment for housing because the new housing stock for Newport is over developed by a good few years.
If they build a hotel and leisure facilities that will help but a guaranteed £150k a year plus from us will cover their borrowings on the asset.
It’s convuluted but I can only summise that they probably need us, in balance.
I haven't run the sums to any degree of accuracy, but they would very quickly replace the income we generate if they could turn the pitch into a 4G one and rent it out throughout the year. They'd also diversify their income base thus reducing risk, and remove the need to relay an expensive desso pitch every 12 months.
I'm not convinced they need us at all to be honest. Either way, I'm not confident we'll find out any time soon.
Re: DRAGONS TO GO PRIVATE - PLANS FOR CABBAGE PATCH FULL ART
17Not a problem! We're definitely in agreement on this one, even if we don't agree on a lot else.Stan A. Einstein wrote:I was about to write exactly the same. Thank you for saving me the bother.rncfc wrote:It's nice to think they need us, but the reality is that they probably don't.Lysaght Dancer wrote:If I was the WRU I would be negotiating with us for a 5 year extension on the agreement, as it will maintain the value of their asset, and it’s an asset that they will find difficult to sell.
They will find it extremely hard to get investment for housing because the new housing stock for Newport is over developed by a good few years.
If they build a hotel and leisure facilities that will help but a guaranteed £150k a year plus from us will cover their borrowings on the asset.
It’s convuluted but I can only summise that they probably need us, in balance.
I haven't run the sums to any degree of accuracy, but they would very quickly replace the income we generate if they could turn the pitch into a 4G one and rent it out throughout the year. They'd also diversify their income base thus reducing risk, and remove the need to relay an expensive desso pitch every 12 months.
I'm not convinced they need us at all to be honest. Either way, I'm not confident we'll find out any time soon.
Re: DRAGONS TO GO PRIVATE - PLANS FOR CABBAGE PATCH FULL ART
184G would also need regular maintenance and replacement, and obviously the more so the more use it got. Would that really be a bigger earner than hosting L2 football?
Re: DRAGONS TO GO PRIVATE - PLANS FOR CABBAGE PATCH FULL ART
19Yes.George Street-Bridge wrote:4G would also need regular maintenance and replacement, and obviously the more so the more use it got. Would that really be a bigger earner than hosting L2 football?
You are forgetting that a 4G pitch could not only be used for sporting events but also for other other large public gatherings, concerts etc. Add to that we pay a very low rent but have primacy of venue. One large event could easily bring in more revenue than our annual rent.
We can't blame Dragons or the WRU. Sadly we have run away from confronting the fact that we don't have a fit for stadium for 30 years, or a fit for purpose board of directors in the last 30 years prepared to face up to the problem.
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Re: DRAGONS TO GO PRIVATE - PLANS FOR CABBAGE PATCH FULL ART
20I'd be amazed if community use of even a 4G pitch would match the revenue from a tenant hosting and catering for a season of L2 football and occasional FA Cup runs.
As for staging concerts etc, stadiums have pitch cover systems in use for that, you don't generally get to tread food, drink and heels into the pitch.....
I personally cant see RP as an attractive venue for concerts etc.
As for staging concerts etc, stadiums have pitch cover systems in use for that, you don't generally get to tread food, drink and heels into the pitch.....
I personally cant see RP as an attractive venue for concerts etc.
Re: DRAGONS TO GO PRIVATE - PLANS FOR CABBAGE PATCH FULL ART
21Other stadia with artificial pitches have been utilized for other events such as concerts. Why do you think a revitalized Rodney Parade won't be attractive?whoareya wrote:
I personally cant see RP as an attractive venue for concerts etc.
Re: DRAGONS TO GO PRIVATE - PLANS FOR CABBAGE PATCH FULL ART
22Talking about revenue is all well and fine but it is profit that drives commercial organisations.
When we were publicly arguing about the cost increase of using RP when WRU took over, their response that they were still making a loss on having us there.
If true, they would be better of kicking us out and taking the do nothing option.
All other options could be subjected to a profit/loss analysis and acted on appropriately but the County/no-County decision seems straightforward if driven by the bottom line.
When we were publicly arguing about the cost increase of using RP when WRU took over, their response that they were still making a loss on having us there.
If true, they would be better of kicking us out and taking the do nothing option.
All other options could be subjected to a profit/loss analysis and acted on appropriately but the County/no-County decision seems straightforward if driven by the bottom line.
Re: DRAGONS TO GO PRIVATE - PLANS FOR CABBAGE PATCH FULL ART
23Its all part of the game for renegotiating terms - we wouldn't have been there in the first place if they were losing money on the deal.Amberexile wrote:Talking about revenue is all well and fine but it is profit that drives commercial organisations.
When we were publicly arguing about the cost increase of using RP when WRU took over, their response that they were still making a loss on having us there.
If true, they would be better of kicking us out and taking the do nothing option.
All other options could be subjected to a profit/loss analysis and acted on appropriately but the County/no-County decision seems straightforward if driven by the bottom line.
More likely to be the 'upwards only' rent tactics that Landlords use everywhere, with us losing money in the longer term, not them.
Re: DRAGONS TO GO PRIVATE - PLANS FOR CABBAGE PATCH FULL ART
24It’s been said on a Cardiff Rugby forum that they turnover £40k a year for renting it out but that’s turnover and not profit. They must have a couple of part time staff working to arrange it all so lucky if they make £20k a year.rncfc wrote:If they put down 4G they can replace any income lost from us by being able to rent the ground out 7 days a week to the public (i.e. like Cwmbran Stadium). This is lower risk than having two tenants which have historically operated at a huge annual loss and one of which is only being propped up by a spate of unexpected cup runs which will eventually stop. It also reduces their cost base as 4G is cheaper to maintain that desso.whoareya wrote:If the WRU sell the Dragons but keep RP, then the Dragons will be tenants the same(ish) as us. As basket-case as the WRU sometime looks, it would be unthinkable for them to terminate our tenancy and the income we generate for no apparent reason - unless they'd use future Dragons tenancy revenue to replace ours?.
Surely they'd want both?
This is what they wanted to do at the start, but we ruined their plans by miraculously escaping relegation and were saved by our lease agreement. Once the lease agreement runs out, the WRU can implement their 4G plans without any legal recourse.
I imagine we will then be given an option to renew at a lower cost, but this would involve us operating in the National League at best seeing as crap plastic pitches aren't allowed in the football league. The WRU do allow these pitches for the rugby as I think the Blues have one.
Glass half empty view perhaps, but in the absence of any public statements to the contrary I imagine this version of events is far more likely than closing our eyes for 4 years and hoping the negotiating fairies are going to come up with a solution.
Peanuts compared to what they get from us.
Re: DRAGONS TO GO PRIVATE - PLANS FOR CABBAGE PATCH FULL ART
25I would agree with you if the WRU had negotiated the terms of our agreement but they weren't in place at the time and inherited a deal that is bad for both parties.whoareya wrote:Its all part of the game for renegotiating terms - we wouldn't have been there in the first place if they were losing money on the deal.Amberexile wrote:Talking about revenue is all well and fine but it is profit that drives commercial organisations.
When we were publicly arguing about the cost increase of using RP when WRU took over, their response that they were still making a loss on having us there.
If true, they would be better of kicking us out and taking the do nothing option.
All other options could be subjected to a profit/loss analysis and acted on appropriately but the County/no-County decision seems straightforward if driven by the bottom line.
More likely to be the 'upwards only' rent tactics that Landlords use everywhere, with us losing money in the longer term, not them.
We will know the truth of the matter as there is an end of year "make good" arrangement for which they will have to disclose actual costs to us. .
Re: DRAGONS TO GO PRIVATE - PLANS FOR CABBAGE PATCH FULL ART
26Yes they were losing money. Mainly the cost of the Bisley stand. And whilst I disagree that this is a negotiating tactic on the part of the WRU I can see the logic of your argument. However Rodney Parade is an asset which can be utilized more so with a 4G pitch. is why you believe Rodney Parade is not an attractive venue.whoareya wrote:Its all part of the game for renegotiating terms - we wouldn't have been there in the first place if they were losing money on the deal.Amberexile wrote:Talking about revenue is all well and fine but it is profit that drives commercial organisations.
When we were publicly arguing about the cost increase of using RP when WRU took over, their response that they were still making a loss on having us there.
If true, they would be better of kicking us out and taking the do nothing option.
All other options could be subjected to a profit/loss analysis and acted on appropriately but the County/no-County decision seems straightforward if driven by the bottom line.
More likely to be the 'upwards only' rent tactics that Landlords use everywhere, with us losing money in the longer term, not them.
Amberexile is in my view correct. It will come down to the bottom line. As things stand WRU/Dragons can make more from a Rodney Parade without us. When I said months ago that our position was akin to that of a lodger who was helping pay the mortgage, when we were no longer needed we would be out. Nothing that has happened since has altered that view.
Re: DRAGONS TO GO PRIVATE - PLANS FOR CABBAGE PATCH FULL ART
27Stan, you have no factual evidence whatsoever that the WRU can make more money without us.
Re: DRAGONS TO GO PRIVATE - PLANS FOR CABBAGE PATCH FULL ART
28Regardless of the positive or negatives for the rugby, at what date do we say, we have yet to come to a formal agreement and we need to explore/implement the alternative plan(s)?
The WRU might want us to stay but at what stage does it become past the point of our future being in our own hands? If it even is now.
The WRU might want us to stay but at what stage does it become past the point of our future being in our own hands? If it even is now.
Re: DRAGONS TO GO PRIVATE - PLANS FOR CABBAGE PATCH FULL ART
29I have only an opinion. Which I am expressing. In my opinion anyone who relies on an opinion expressed on a Cardiff rugby forum is being somewhat naive.Lysaght Dancer wrote:Stan, you have no factual evidence whatsoever that the WRU can make more money without us.
Re: DRAGONS TO GO PRIVATE - PLANS FOR CABBAGE PATCH FULL ART
30The fella on the rugby forum seems to be very knowledgable and is on their supporters club Trust Board, he is very active on a twitter and seems in the know.Stan A. Einstein wrote:I have only an opinion. Which I am expressing. In my opinion anyone who relies on an opinion expressed on a Cardiff rugby forum is being somewhat naive.Lysaght Dancer wrote:Stan, you have no factual evidence whatsoever that the WRU can make more money without us.
I could be naive and rely on his informed opinion or I could be batshit crazy and rely on your totally uninformed and made up opinion that’s only expressed to further your own narrative.
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