It is a valid point that NGR makes about fans joining the trust to cover loses.I don't think everyone would become Gold but,fans should try to be Bronze.Unfortunately,some fans are only interested in what happens on the pitch and have no interest in off field activities.Maybe leaflets could be circulated at a home game or placed in the match programme to raise awareness.

newgroundrodney wrote:

SJG99 wrote:

newgroundrodney wrote:If 1500 fans joined or upgraded to the GOLD level, over a year we'd probably take enough money to start the following season on an even keel financially. Sort of soaking up the losses.

Seems unlikely we've got 1500 fans who would be able to/want to do that or they probably already would.

Yeah, I agree you're probably right. Shame though, cos one of the things we can do as fans is soak up the losses. That's kind of what I thought we were entering into, though the need for ONGOING donations, was not stressed heavily enough at the time as I recall. I guess the emphasis was on securing Community Share sales in the first instance.
I'd love to think we could start a year (or end a year - whichever way they calculate it) with a £1 profit, with the losses having been met collectively by the fans. Hopefully soon we'll be running at a profit.
I don't understand the accountancy angle of it all, and I'm sure many fans don't. What I really do not understand, is how in one breath we're told we're running at a loss, and in the next breath we're told, "we turned down an offer of £225,000 (?) for the club, because the offer was for less money than we currently had in the bank"....

Look at it this way by considering the following made-up example.

Bid offer £225k

Club current a/c £100k
Club deposit a/c £1m
Club's running deficit p.a. £350k

You run at a loss because your expenditure exceeds your income over a particular timescale. Running at a loss means you deplete your reserves (basically FA Cup money in our current situation). You can be running at a loss but still be solvent/going concern, like we have been. Given the example, though running at a loss, the accruing losses (and ultimately debt) can be handled for a season or three.

If the club's deposit a/c is eliminated, then it probably becomes marginal whether the bid of £225k would be acceptable (since in two separate years we've covered running losses by unexpected income), certainly in season 1 when in debt anyway. We are a couple of seasons away from that situation.

Percy plunkett wrote:It is a valid point that NGR makes about fans joining the trust to cover loses.I don't think everyone would become Gold but,fans should try to be Bronze.Unfortunately,some fans are only interested in what happens on the pitch and have no interest in off field activities.Maybe leaflets could be circulated at a home game or placed in the match programme to raise awareness.

That's actually what I thought we were doing at the outset, it just wasn't pushed heavily enough. I did try to do so at meetings but...

FAO: Nearly Dead....
I can't quote your post, but in your example, if fans' donated £360,000 a year what would be the affect on overall finances?

newgroundrodney wrote:FAO: Nearly Dead....
I can't quote your post, but in your example, if fans' donated £360,000 a year what would be the affect on overall finances?

Positive. In the last couple of seasons it would have covered running losses just about

NearlyDead wrote:

newgroundrodney wrote:FAO: Nearly Dead....
I can't quote your post, but in your example, if fans' donated £360,000 a year what would be the affect on overall finances?

Positive. In the last couple of seasons it would have covered running losses just about

....then that's the position I want us in.
Gold membership for any that can afford to do so.

Interesting thread this and to make another point.

I hope some of the more vociferous critics on here can now see how difficult it is to employ staff to keep a shop open 9-5 , employ a competent CEO , a full time commercial department , an I.T manager to identify what supporters have not received an email , enough ticketing staff to service a cup run every 12 months and team able to compete in league 2.
Admittedly the club could do all of the above, but it would certainly be to the detriment of the playing squad.

What we have is Hobson’s choice. We can speak to someone in the commercial department every day , stroll up and get our tickets for a premier league team within minutes or we can have the likes of Amond , Matt and Labadie wearing our shirt. At the moment , we cannot have both.

Alan G Bryant wrote:Interesting thread this and to make another point.

I hope some of the more vociferous critics on here can now see how difficult it is to employ staff to keep a shop open 9-5 , employ a competent CEO , a full time commercial department , an I.T manager to identify what supporters have not received an email , enough ticketing staff to service a cup run every 12 months and team able to compete in league 2.
Admittedly the club could do all of the above, but it would certainly be to the detriment of the playing squad.

What we have is Hobson’s choice. We can speak to someone in the commercial department every day , stroll up and get our tickets for a premier league team within minutes or we can have the likes of Amond , Matt and Labadie wearing our shirt.

...but by the same token, the Membership Scheme cannot simply be a glorified players' fund. Running of the club and ongoing stability should come first.

newgroundrodney wrote:

Alan G Bryant wrote:Interesting thread this and to make another point.

I hope some of the more vociferous critics on here can now see how difficult it is to employ staff to keep a shop open 9-5 , employ a competent CEO , a full time commercial department , an I.T manager to identify what supporters have not received an email , enough ticketing staff to service a cup run every 12 months and team able to compete in league 2.
Admittedly the club could do all of the above, but it would certainly be to the detriment of the playing squad.

What we have is Hobson’s choice. We can speak to someone in the commercial department every day , stroll up and get our tickets for a premier league team within minutes or we can have the likes of Amond , Matt and Labadie wearing our shirt.

...but by the same token, the Membership Scheme cannot simply be a glorified players' fund. Running of the club and ongoing stability should come first.

Then as owners , we need to donate more , and still there would be no guarantees.

newgroundrodney wrote:

Alan G Bryant wrote:Interesting thread this and to make another point.

I hope some of the more vociferous critics on here can now see how difficult it is to employ staff to keep a shop open 9-5 , employ a competent CEO , a full time commercial department , an I.T manager to identify what supporters have not received an email , enough ticketing staff to service a cup run every 12 months and team able to compete in league 2.
Admittedly the club could do all of the above, but it would certainly be to the detriment of the playing squad.

What we have is Hobson’s choice. We can speak to someone in the commercial department every day , stroll up and get our tickets for a premier league team within minutes or we can have the likes of Amond , Matt and Labadie wearing our shirt.

...but by the same token, the Membership Scheme cannot simply be a glorified players' fund. Running of the club and ongoing stability should come first.

Yes it can.

Alan G Bryant wrote:

newgroundrodney wrote:

Alan G Bryant wrote:Interesting thread this and to make another point.

I hope some of the more vociferous critics on here can now see how difficult it is to employ staff to keep a shop open 9-5 , employ a competent CEO , a full time commercial department , an I.T manager to identify what supporters have not received an email , enough ticketing staff to service a cup run every 12 months and team able to compete in league 2.
Admittedly the club could do all of the above, but it would certainly be to the detriment of the playing squad.

What we have is Hobson’s choice. We can speak to someone in the commercial department every day , stroll up and get our tickets for a premier league team within minutes or we can have the likes of Amond , Matt and Labadie wearing our shirt.

...but by the same token, the Membership Scheme cannot simply be a glorified players' fund. Running of the club and ongoing stability should come first.

Then as owners , we need to donate more , and still there would be no guarantees.

You're right. But were The Club to go to the wall, I'd rather it did so with me having chipped in my share of the losses, not my share of any one player's wages. That should be covered by ticket sales, ideally from HOME fans only, with away fans as a bonus.

I wonder to what extent if any, more fans would donate more money if they knew the scheme was for (a) players only (b) running costs only?....

newgroundrodney wrote:I wonder to what extent if any, more fans would donate more money if they knew the scheme was for (a) players only (b) running costs only?....

Surely it is the same pot ?

Alan G Bryant wrote:

newgroundrodney wrote:I wonder to what extent if any, more fans would donate more money if they knew the scheme was for (a) players only (b) running costs only?....

Surely it is the same pot ?

Well you'd think so, but it was made clear that the old Benefit & Rewards scheme would be used for players..."100 percent" were the exact words used.....
I'd rather my money was used on stationery, phone bills, fuel cost, back office wages, etc, etc....
How many would feel the same way I don't know.

Alan G Bryant wrote:Interesting thread this and to make another point.

I hope some of the more vociferous critics on here can now see how difficult it is to employ staff to keep a shop open 9-5 , employ a competent CEO , a full time commercial department , an I.T manager to identify what supporters have not received an email , enough ticketing staff to service a cup run every 12 months and team able to compete in league 2.
Admittedly the club could do all of the above, but it would certainly be to the detriment of the playing squad.

What we have is Hobson’s choice. We can speak to someone in the commercial department every day , stroll up and get our tickets for a premier league team within minutes or we can have the likes of Amond , Matt and Labadie wearing our shirt. At the moment , we cannot have both.

Excellent pont and one I fully agree with. I would also add that when there are 'specifics' brought up on this board, there is little consideration to the 'round'/ the context (as outlined in the above post). Page upon page last season on fans demanding a costly ticketing system based on loyalty points is a good example.