newgroundrodney wrote:There is also the aspect of there "not being one openly gay footballer".....
Now, at the risk of sounding homophobic myself, I wonder to what extent if any, a player's willingness to "come out" is dictated by the fact that he will have shared changing rooms, in various states of undress, with the gender to which he is sexually attracted. Obviously, it is only natural that there be some reticence on his part to make this very private aspect of his life known.
The changing room issue is a major one, I believe.
If we get a female assistant referee, does she share a changing room with her male counterparts?...does she walk around in the altogether in front of those male colleagues? Now if she does, then fair enough, but I would suggest that the reason there aren't more openly gay players, is fear of the reaction to the fact that they've shared a changing room, however irrational that fear may be.
Would any of us be comfortable walking around naked, in a dressing full of the gender to which we are attracted?

This to me, is the real root of the problem, one of what is appropriate or inappropriate. This I believe is what stops them coming out.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:You will all know when homophobic abuse is not an issue. If that day ever comes gay people will no more need to 'come out' than do heterosexual people.

And what anyone's particular sexual preference is, is seen as no more important than the colour of their eyes. That which consenting adults choose to do in private is none of anyone else's business.

pembsexile wrote:

newgroundrodney wrote:There is also the aspect of there "not being one openly gay footballer".....
Now, at the risk of sounding homophobic myself, I wonder to what extent if any, a player's willingness to "come out" is dictated by the fact that he will have shared changing rooms, in various states of undress, with the gender to which he is sexually attracted. Obviously, it is only natural that there be some reticence on his part to make this very private aspect of his life known.
The changing room issue is a major one, I believe.
If we get a female assistant referee, does she share a changing room with her male counterparts?...does she walk around in the altogether in front of those male colleagues? Now if she does, then fair enough, but I would suggest that the reason there aren't more openly gay players, is fear of the reaction to the fact that they've shared a changing room, however irrational that fear may be.
Would any of us be comfortable walking around naked, in a dressing full of the gender to which we are attracted?

This to me, is the real root of the problem, one of what is appropriate or inappropriate. This I believe is what stops them coming out.

That issue is something that I have thought about but never heard or seen it discussed until now. You could well be right in what you say.

I have often wondered why players don’t come out as gay, no problem at all with that. I don’t think it is fear of public ridicule but a possible fear of the ‘changing room mentality’ including their own feelings as well as that of their teammates.

pembsexile wrote:

Stan A. Einstein wrote:You will all know when homophobic abuse is not an issue. If that day ever comes gay people will no more need to 'come out' than do heterosexual people.

And what anyone's particular sexual preference is, is seen as no more important than the colour of their eyes. That which consenting adults choose to do in private is none of anyone else's business.

That's a bit of a stereotypical view and not quite correct Brendan. There are a few instances of a sexual nature between consenting adults that are illegal. No need to give you a list, you will know what they are.

Triangle wrote:Life is hard enough as it is. Try living in fear of being yourself. It shouldn't be that way. I can't even begin to imagine how difficult that is. Belittling and condemning people as just attention seeking just because they are gay, when we have no clue what they have been though is not right in my opinion.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

pembsexile wrote:

Stan A. Einstein wrote:You will all know when homophobic abuse is not an issue. If that day ever comes gay people will no more need to 'come out' than do heterosexual people.

And what anyone's particular sexual preference is, is seen as no more important than the colour of their eyes. That which consenting adults choose to do in private is none of anyone else's business.

That's a bit of a stereotypical view and not quite correct Brendan. There are a few instances of a sexual nature between consenting adults that are illegal. No need to give you a list, you will know what they are.

Yes there are. Mostly in what is termed BDSM. My view is that only a person who was seriously mentally ill would consent to permanent injury or death. As such there is no informed consent. Their Lordships in their 'wisdom' outlawed in the infamous Spanner case many practices well short of this. In my view this is an unjustified infringement on the liberty of the individual. And as such in my view of no concern to anyone other than those involved. The House of Lords, now the Supreme Court are as wrong on this as they were when for centuries they upheld that a man could not rape his wife.They only recently got around to changing this.

I feel the same about drugs, censorship and a whole host of other matters. If you are adult and sane, so long as you don't infringe the rights of another you should be able to do anything you please.

Triangle wrote:Life is hard enough as it is. Try living in fear of being yourself. It shouldn't be that way. I can't even begin to imagine how difficult that is. Belittling and condemning people as just attention seeking just because they are gay, when we have no clue what they have been though is not right in my opinion.

Triangle wrote:Life is hard enough as it is. Try living in fear of being yourself. It shouldn't be that way. I can't even begin to imagine how difficult that is. Belittling and condemning people as just attention seeking just because they are gay, when we have no clue what they have been though is not right in my opinion.