Stan A. Einstein wrote:Actually re the post above.

Leaving aside the vitriol from a small number on this board this post is for those of you who read but don't post.

Firstly please don't take my word for anything. I don't dissemble or lie but I am quite capable of being wrong. So check your own facts, and there are plenty of search engines out there.

Firstly check whether a beneficiary under a trust can also be a trustee.

Having done that ask yourselves these questions.

Who do you believe are the owners of Newport County?

Do you think the directors have a duty to keep supporters informed?

Do you think the directors are carrying out that duty?

Why do you think a small number of vitriolic posters on this board seem so upset by my questions?

Now I'm sure they will attempt to swamp with abuse but last night watching an article on the Peterloo massacre I was reminded of the words of Shelly


Shake your chains to earth like dew,
Which in sleep had fallen on you,
For ye are many,
They are few.


It is your club. It is up to you how it is run.

In the four hours since I posted this, as I predicted a small number of posters would attempt to swamp this with abuse. I was sadly right. But as I also predicted they are a very small number. And in the four hours nearly 400 hits. Now doubtless some people will have visited this more than once but I suspect somewhere between 200 and 300 people will have read this thread and chosen not to comment.

Now I am not in the slightest bit concerned with the abuse or those who attempt to dissemble. However many of you who read this will be shareholders in the club and trust. It is your club. You may disagree with everything I write, you may not. But it is your club.
And your views whatever they are are as valid as anyone else's. Don't let me or anyone else stop you from thinking about what our club could be and if you have ideas, and if you want to, express them.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

Stan A. Einstein wrote:Actually re the post above.

Leaving aside the vitriol from a small number on this board this post is for those of you who read but don't post.

Firstly please don't take my word for anything. I don't dissemble or lie but I am quite capable of being wrong. So check your own facts, and there are plenty of search engines out there.

Firstly check whether a beneficiary under a trust can also be a trustee.

Having done that ask yourselves these questions.

Who do you believe are the owners of Newport County?

Do you think the directors have a duty to keep supporters informed?

Do you think the directors are carrying out that duty?

Why do you think a small number of vitriolic posters on this board seem so upset by my questions?

Now I'm sure they will attempt to swamp with abuse but last night watching an article on the Peterloo massacre I was reminded of the words of Shelly


Shake your chains to earth like dew,
Which in sleep had fallen on you,
For ye are many,
They are few.


It is your club. It is up to you how it is run.

In the four hours since I posted this, as I predicted a small number of posters would attempt to swamp this with abuse. I was sadly right. But as I also predicted they are a very small number. And in the four hours nearly 400 hits. Now doubtless some people will have visited this more than once but I suspect somewhere between 200 and 300 people will have read this thread and chosen not to comment.

Now I am not in the slightest bit concerned with the abuse or those who attempt to dissemble. However many of you who read this will be shareholders in the club and trust. It is your club. You may disagree with everything I write, you may not. But it is your club.
And your views whatever they are are as valid as anyone else's. Don't let me or anyone else stop you from thinking about what our club could be and if you have ideas, and if you want to, express them.

Most people don't have an ego so big and fragile that they need their views to be shared with and by everyone else in order to get through the day.

Most people reading this are probably thinking, "you sad *******(s)".

I definitely haven't a clue about trust certificates
But I cite Beano v Roy of the Rovers as a classic case of measles

A company is owned by its shareholders.

A list of Newport Association Football Club Ltd's shareholders dated 7/1/2016 is filed at Companies House

The list contains 581 names

Frank Nouble 3 wrote:Amber Exile

Made me think and to confirm I have never received any certificate for my £50 Shares.
Not that I want one but as per your comments previously.
What does it state on their.
Cheers

Hey Frank,

Unfortunately I have more important stuff to do with my time at the moment than the message board so I'll say this and then leave it for a while.

As I've said elsewhere, I am away from home so can't take a look at the certificate I was sent, this is likely to be the case for a while but my recollection is of being surprised when I read the certificate. When I received it, I expected it be some meaningless document that would be filed away and that's that but was surprised when I read it that I thought it said that I had shares in the club itself. Now I may be completely wrong in my recollection and as I've said, I can't get to read it. This is why I wanted someone like Brendan to take a look and give his view.

I imagine if the trust have issued signed documents telling people they have shares in the football club (as opposed to the trust), even if this is in error, it could maybe be used to bring into doubt whether the trust do actually own a controlling interest in the club, thus making the question of ownership rather confused.

Hopefully somebody can take a look at their certificate and tell me I am wrong.

My certificate says I own five shares in Newport County AFC Supporters Trust

Thanks Amber
If Joe is looking at the £50 shares then one would think as a shareholder you do not require to join every 12 months to have a vote or get priority tickets.

Clearly the club needs a regular income from the trust separately but that is a bit of an eye opener if that is stated on the shares.

Amberexile wrote:

Frank Nouble 3 wrote:Amber Exile

Made me think and to confirm I have never received any certificate for my £50 Shares.
Not that I want one but as per your comments previously.
What does it state on their.
Cheers

Hey Frank,

Unfortunately I have more important stuff to do with my time at the moment than the message board so I'll say this and then leave it for a while.

As I've said elsewhere, I am away from home so can't take a look at the certificate I was sent, this is likely to be the case for a while but my recollection is of being surprised when I read the certificate. When I received it, I expected it be some meaningless document that would be filed away and that's that but was surprised when I read it that I thought it said that I had shares in the club itself. Now I may be completely wrong in my recollection and as I've said, I can't get to read it. This is why I wanted someone like Brendan to take a look and give his view.

I imagine if the trust have issued signed documents telling people they have shares in the football club (as opposed to the trust), even if this is in error, it could maybe be used to bring into doubt whether the trust do actually own a controlling interest in the club, thus making the question of ownership rather confused.

Hopefully somebody can take a look at their certificate and tell me I am wrong.

As I have never received share certificates I can't help you.

However when studied as part of an under graduate degree Trust law is taught as Equity and Trusts.

Title to property is complex. For instance anyone on here think you have a mortgage? Think again, it's the bank or building society who have the mortgage. Anyone think they own their own house? Think again, the Queen owns your house the best you can hope for is to own the interest of the fee simple absolute in possession. I could go on.

Now property of any description and ownership is complicated. But there are two types of ownership. Legal and equitable. Very often you can hold both at the same time. And when they cease to mingle this is usually no problem. When you sell your interest in your house there will be an exchange of contract. At that point the vendor maintains the legal ownership but the equitable title passes to the buyer. When you complete the buyer has both legal and equitable title.

When there is a dispute that is when courts and lawyers get involved and over the years general principles emerge. Two of which are in my view very important. The first is intention. What did the parties setting up the Trust intend? And where this is a trust very often the intention of the parties is written down. And where it is, certainly in contract law the Parole evidence rule will be applied. That being that a written document trumps any other agreement. Which of course makes anything written on share certificates important. But and it's a very big but......

The first and most fundamental principle of Equity, is that 'He who seeks equitable relief must do so with clean hands'. Today I had a look at what was being said at the time of the takeover of Newport County by the supporters trust. I read an article in Wales on Line. Both Mr Pring and Mr Hando were very clear. County were being saved by fans buying and owning the club.

For me I think this conclusive. I must add I was not a commercial lawyer. And I could be wrong. This is my opinion only. I understand that Charlie Hopkins was. I know he reads this board. Any views he were to express would have more weight than mine.

My understanding is that the fans who invested in trust shares own the Trust and the Trust owns a controlling interest in the Club.

The Trust is a vehicle to facilitate fan ownership and investment in the club.

Is this not correct?

joe wrote:My understanding is that the fans who invested in trust shares own the Trust and the Trust owns a controlling interest in the Club.

The Trust is simply a vehicle to facilitate fan ownership and investment in the club.

Is this not correct?

It's called 'peeping behind the veil'. In company law Newport County Limited are a legal identity in their own right.

However whilst this serves the purpose of limited liability, the rule in Fosse v Harbottle, the company is the proper plaintiff and so on for other purposes we do need to know who the true owners are

So who owns the club. My view the trust? Who owns the trust. The shareholders of the trust. Who are the beneficiaries of the Trust? The members of the Trust.

In my opinion you are right,