Money and how much we got last year,loans,signings, etc, etc is oft mentioned in threads, but despite conjecture does anyone really know how financially sound the club is?

Nope.

Outside of published accounts, at any rate, and I'll be honest, I've not seen those (but I haven't looked for them either).

That said, it's pretty widespread belief that we operate on one of the smallest budgets in the division, in order to have a shot at self-sufficiency.

According to the latest board minutes our finances are 'positive'.

Willthiswork wrote:According to the latest board minutes our finances are 'positive'.

So are mine....I had 1p left in there before pay day

Willthiswork wrote:According to the latest board minutes our finances are 'positive'.

That means nothing.

We made a lot of money from Cup competitions and transfers. There is a proper debate as to how that money should be spent. The figures are known as to how much we made. The break even figure for crowds at League games and County being viable is known.

Even allowing for expenses, we have in the region of £2,000,000 in excess of that which will have budgeted for. That is not the same as having £2,000,000 in the bank. You can argue, spend the excess on players and go for broke. You can argue, put the money away for a rainy day. You can argue that the money should be ring fenced for infrastructure requirements.Those decisions are for the board and the only proviso is that the board are open to scrutiny as to how they spend that money.

Fifteen years ago I asked what had happened to the prize money from the Welsh Premier Cup. The reply was it was all used up in the general running of the club. It's our club now, that answer for me no longer will suffice.

We have more staff than previously too.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

Willthiswork wrote:According to the latest board minutes our finances are 'positive'.

That means nothing.

We made a lot of money from Cup competitions and transfers. There is a proper debate as to how that money should be spent. The figures are known as to how much we made. The break even figure for crowds at League games and County being viable is known.

Even allowing for expenses, we have in the region of £2,000,000 in excess of that which will have budgeted for. That is not the same as having £2,000,000 in the bank. You can argue, spend the excess on players and go for broke. You can argue, put the money away for a rainy day. You can argue that the money should be ring fenced for infrastructure requirements.Those decisions are for the board and the only proviso is that the board are open to scrutiny as to how they spend that money.

Fifteen years ago I asked what had happened to the prize money from the Welsh Premier Cup. The reply was it was all used up in the general running of the club. It's our club now, that answer for me no longer will suffice.

Brendan, the extra cup games weren't cost-free either, even with the additional cup income. This is why we only made £85k profit in the first cup run year - the additional costs for policing, hiring temporary stands etc are not trivial. We were also running at an operating loss at the time due to a) the vast expenditure required the previous season to keep us in L2, and b) our status as league minnows, at least in budgetary terms.

I understand that you will be satisfied with no less than things you know damn well will never be provided to you and would never be provided to you by any sane organisation, and I realise that I've once again fallen into the trap of arguing with someone who only really cares about the arguing, but think of your own blood pressure and let it go.

njbh86 wrote:

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

Willthiswork wrote:According to the latest board minutes our finances are 'positive'.

That means nothing.

We made a lot of money from Cup competitions and transfers. There is a proper debate as to how that money should be spent. The figures are known as to how much we made. The break even figure for crowds at League games and County being viable is known.

Even allowing for expenses, we have in the region of £2,000,000 in excess of that which will have budgeted for. That is not the same as having £2,000,000 in the bank. You can argue, spend the excess on players and go for broke. You can argue, put the money away for a rainy day. You can argue that the money should be ring fenced for infrastructure requirements.Those decisions are for the board and the only proviso is that the board are open to scrutiny as to how they spend that money.

Fifteen years ago I asked what had happened to the prize money from the Welsh Premier Cup. The reply was it was all used up in the general running of the club. It's our club now, that answer for me no longer will suffice.

Brendan, the extra cup games weren't cost-free either, even with the additional cup income. This is why we only made £85k profit in the first cup run year - the additional costs for policing, hiring temporary stands etc are not trivial. We were also running at an operating loss at the time due to a) the vast expenditure required the previous season to keep us in L2, and b) our status as league minnows, at least in budgetary terms.

I understand that you will be satisfied with no less than things you know damn well will never be provided to you and would never be provided to you by any sane organisation, and I realise that I've once again fallen into the trap of arguing with someone who only really cares about the arguing, but think of your own blood pressure and let it go.[/qmoney]

I know. But with the transfer fees for Washington et all, the prize money, the TV money, gate money etc my calculation is that the monies received in excess of budget would be somewhat more than three million. Even allowing for expenses I feel that should mean a revenue of at least £2,000,000 above budget.

Now that is not to say that that means £2million is still there, or indeed that any funds haven't been well spent. What I am saying is that what that income was and how it is spent should be known.

I still cannot comprehend that we have over a 100 individuals on the pay roll.
Taking out the squad and management what the heck are the other 60 odd employed doing.
We rent the ground, stewards etc.
Really cannot get my head around 100 people.
1 person staffed at the shop?

Physios,Kitmen,academy staff,admin staff, legal reps,catering training days and there is probably a few more obviously not all will be full time or on silly money but all will account for money none the less.and regarding £££££,s earned the last 3 seasons we were told £85k profit from the Spurs season so looking at operating loss of £350 k season before and more than likely same that season more or less accounts for 800k made that season.last seasons exploits we don’t know figs but hopefully they should show a very positive profit when released and everything for this season we probably haven’t been paid majority of it yet so no point guessing as to what profit would show next year.Realistically if the cup runs have helped cover losses increased costs and still left us in credit to start the next season then surely for a club with no stadium no assets and very little in way of revenue streams that’s no mean feat in this current environment

phil crump wrote:Physios,Kitmen,academy staff,admin staff, legal reps,catering training days and there is probably a few more obviously not all will be full time or on silly money but all will account for money none the less.and regarding £££££,s earned the last 3 seasons we were told £85k profit from the Spurs season so looking at operating loss of £350 k season before and more than likely same that season more or less accounts for 800k made that season.last seasons exploits we don’t know figs but hopefully they should show a very positive profit when released and everything for this season we probably haven’t been paid majority of it yet so no point guessing as to what profit would show next year.Realistically if the cup runs have helped cover losses increased costs and still left us in credit to start the next season then surely for a club with no stadium no assets and very little in way of revenue streams that’s no mean feat in this current environment

No mean feat. I don't disagree.

However those of us of a certain vintage will remember public information films. (Reginald Molehusband anyone?) One of these films was of a home owner with a burst pipe showing exactly what to do in the event of this domestic emergency. At the end of the film the voice over said, "Well done Sir, you did everything right. " The householder looks up with a satisfied smile but becomes crestfallen when the voice over asks, "But why did you let it happen in the first place?"

phil crump wrote:Physios,Kitmen,academy staff,admin staff, legal reps,catering training days and there is probably a few more obviously not all will be full time or on silly money but all will account for money none the less.and regarding £££££,s earned the last 3 seasons we were told £85k profit from the Spurs season so looking at operating loss of £350 k season before and more than likely same that season more or less accounts for 800k made that season.last seasons exploits we don’t know figs but hopefully they should show a very positive profit when released and everything for this season we probably haven’t been paid majority of it yet so no point guessing as to what profit would show next year.Realistically if the cup runs have helped cover losses increased costs and still left us in credit to start the next season then surely for a club with no stadium no assets and very little in way of revenue streams that’s no mean feat in this current environment

True, football clubs are an expensive hobby - and I’m afraid it’s just that, our hobby , and it costs big time. I very much doubt that our beloved “leaders and teachers” are having a lot of trouble shutting the lid of the war chest, indeed I can’t see Gavin having to sit on the lid while Shaun fits the padlock into the hasp and staple!
In short , I’m not saying we’re potless but I very much doubt we are at all looking around for something to spend our doubloons on. One season without a cup run will make for stormy waters in my view. Perhaps the board should ( only in broad outline obviously ) be willing to indicate the amounts spent in various tranches of expense and those of profit from attendances etc. Only then would the average punter realise we’re not going out shopping for strikers in the championship when things get a bit dicky on the goals front.
Stan alludes above to unpreparedness I believe , and he’s probably right to do that. It refers to our consistent inability to own our own home however and that’s been done to death elsewhere on here. Unless some sort of tripartite company with the Dragons and the Council is born, I see no resolution. All sports clubs are chasing the holy grail of investment and income streams in order to secure their future. It’s a tough old world and judging where we are in the current cycle of boom and bust, I suspect it’s going to get a hell of a lot tougher. As some clubs have already found out, searching for a rich benefactor isn’t necessarily the path to salvation. Put no faith in saviours.

How nice to read some interesting thoughts,nice one,no vitriol either. It fascinates me what the criteria are for the point when a volunteering role turns into a paid role
Thoughts on this?.

How much does it cost per year to run NCAFC, before a single penny in income is received?....

mad norm wrote:How nice to read some interesting thoughts,nice one,no vitriol either. It fascinates me what the criteria are for the point when a volunteering role turns into a paid role
Thoughts on this?.

Depends I guess on the volunteer what their doing and at what point they may feel they should recieve something.having been there I don’t really think there is a definitive answer