Carefull what you wish for?

Newport County natter & football chatter.
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Stan A. Einstein

Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Stan A. Einstein » January 14th, 2020, 2:40 pm

Surely the point is everyone should want County to be playing at the highest level possible.

The city of Newport has a population of 150,000 people. A conurbation of 350,000. Similar to Preston and Blackpool, Swansea and Reading. There is no reason we should not have these teams, and teams like them, as our regular opponents. Can we dominate Europe for a decade? Probably not. Could we aim to ever play at the top level of English football for a few seasons? Well in my lifetime, Swindon, Carlisle, Barnsley, Oxford, Luton, Blackpool, Oldham, and a fair few others have managed it.

One final point, I started watching football in the mid-sixties. In that time only Liverpool, Arsenal and Everton out of the present 92 have I not seen relegated. Sooner or later County will be relegated. If we are in League 1 when it happens we remain a League club. If we are in League 2 when it happens we are non-league.
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Frank Nouble 3

Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Frank Nouble 3 » January 14th, 2020, 2:43 pm

excessbee wrote:What a bizarre idea! So this team is actually too good for League Two?

Not at all.
Forgot Swindon away as well.
In essence correct with a few additions especially to midfield.
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Fourthousand

Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Fourthousand » January 14th, 2020, 3:09 pm

Frank Nouble 3 wrote:
UPTHEPORT wrote:
allontheamber wrote:I'm in the camp that had we have gone up last season it could have been a disaster. I don't want to see the demise of the club similar to that which started ok n 1986/87.
When we go up, and it will happen one day, we need security of ground tenure, financial stability, administrative infrastructure.
When we go up we need things in place that will see us safe in League 1 for the next three years.
I don't want promotion believing we would come straight back down.


If you remember there were some posters on here saying promotion to the football league was to early

I don't get those arguments we just need to push on

Got to agree 100% here.

Over the years heard so many stories of clubs not wanting promotion and deliberately slowing up as the season finishes.
Lets hope we never get that attitude.
We go up make a lot of bucks, struggle bounce back down.
So be then we go again.
Seriously if we went up we would be okay in middle or just under with the squad we have now anyway.


Make lots of bucks you say - tell us how much extra 'bucks' we would make?
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Fourthousand

Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Fourthousand » January 14th, 2020, 3:10 pm

Frank Nouble 3 wrote:
excessbee wrote:
Frank Nouble 3 wrote:


......... Seriously if we went up we would be okay in middle or just under with the squad we have now anyway.


How do you square this statement with the current dissatisfaction with performances and poor points return?

Simple because we always play better against better sides rather than hoof ball against the dross.
We very rarely hammer a poor team.
EG all the cup games.
Plymouth/ Crewe home this season.
FGR away.
Even MK Dons in Mickey Mouse cup.
We just get drawn down to crap teams level unfortunately.
Pretty sure we will play well Saturday against quality.
Look at Yeovil 0-6 and they get relegated.
Says it all really.


And in your mind you obviously believe this - wow.
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Frank Nouble 3

Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Frank Nouble 3 » January 14th, 2020, 4:13 pm

Fourthousand wrote:
Frank Nouble 3 wrote:
UPTHEPORT wrote:
allontheamber wrote:I'm in the camp that had we have gone up last season it could have been a disaster. I don't want to see the demise of the club similar to that which started ok n 1986/87.
When we go up, and it will happen one day, we need security of ground tenure, financial stability, administrative infrastructure.
When we go up we need things in place that will see us safe in League 1 for the next three years.
I don't want promotion believing we would come straight back down.


If you remember there were some posters on here saying promotion to the football league was to early

I don't get those arguments we just need to push on

Got to agree 100% here.

Over the years heard so many stories of clubs not wanting promotion and deliberately slowing up as the season finishes.
Lets hope we never get that attitude.
We go up make a lot of bucks, struggle bounce back down.
So be then we go again.
Seriously if we went up we would be okay in middle or just under with the squad we have now anyway.


Make lots of bucks you say - tell us how much extra 'bucks' we would make?

I believe we would qualify for solidarity payments.
I believe attendances would increase by a good few £K per game.
We would have sell out away end support with the possibility of Pompey/Sunderland/Rovers even possibly Plymouth.
Coventry/ Wigan etc would bring more than Stevenage/ Crawley etc blimey Stoke may be in the equation also.
Think most supporters would be happy to see an increase on home tickets to see superior teams at RP also.
Hence that's my reply.
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Frank Nouble 3

Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Frank Nouble 3 » January 14th, 2020, 4:18 pm

Fourthousand wrote:
Frank Nouble 3 wrote:
excessbee wrote:
Frank Nouble 3 wrote:


......... Seriously if we went up we would be okay in middle or just under with the squad we have now anyway.


How do you square this statement with the current dissatisfaction with performances and poor points return?

Simple because we always play better against better sides rather than hoof ball against the dross.
We very rarely hammer a poor team.
EG all the cup games.
Plymouth/ Crewe home this season.
FGR away.
Even MK Dons in Mickey Mouse cup.
We just get drawn down to crap teams level unfortunately.
Pretty sure we will play well Saturday against quality.
Look at Yeovil 0-6 and they get relegated.
Says it all really.


And in your mind you obviously believe this - wow.


We have a base of players who could hold there own in league 1

Both Keepers
Haynes
Demetriou
Sheehan
Labadie
Wilmott
Matt
Amond
Abrahams.
Cannot comment on the 3 new signings so far.

Loaness Nurse & McNamarra would do well so need equivalents.

Sorry but think OB would struggle as would Scott.
Jury out on Inniss
Matty not a chance imo.
Plus the 3 youngsters gradually brought into the side.
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njbh86

Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby njbh86 » January 14th, 2020, 4:21 pm

You also appear to think we would be able to retain these players on the same terms they currently have. Not realistic in the least.
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njbh86

Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby njbh86 » January 14th, 2020, 4:22 pm

Stan A. Einstein wrote:Over 10 years ago in response to a post of mine, and I genuinely don't remember who it was said, 'Have you thought that Conference South is a proper level?'

Don't buy a house. It might burn down.

Don't learn to drive. You might die in a car crash.

Don't ask her out, She might break your heart.

Don't go outdoors. You might get struck by lightning.

Don't aspire to a good job. You risk not getting it.

Don't accept that great job offer. You might get sacked.

In fact stay in bed. In a hundred years time you'll be dead anyway.



It's ok Brendan, we know that if we go up and the wheels come off you'll just blame Flynny/the board anyway.
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Frank Nouble 3

Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Frank Nouble 3 » January 14th, 2020, 4:30 pm

njbh86 wrote:You also appear to think we would be able to retain these players on the same terms they currently have. Not realistic in the least.

Depends on the individual and his current contract
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excessbee

Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby excessbee » January 14th, 2020, 4:36 pm

Frank, survival in League One would need a core of players who have played at that level. Which of our current players fit the bill? I mean having played more than a handful of games.
Last edited by excessbee on January 14th, 2020, 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stan A. Einstein

Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Stan A. Einstein » January 14th, 2020, 4:37 pm

njbh86 wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:Over 10 years ago in response to a post of mine, and I genuinely don't remember who it was said, 'Have you thought that Conference South is a proper level?'

Don't buy a house. It might burn down.

Don't learn to drive. You might die in a car crash.

Don't ask her out, She might break your heart.

Don't go outdoors. You might get struck by lightning.

Don't aspire to a good job. You risk not getting it.

Don't accept that great job offer. You might get sacked.

In fact stay in bed. In a hundred years time you'll be dead anyway.



It's ok Brendan, we know that if we go up and the wheels come off you'll just blame Flynny/the board anyway.


That's okay I'm only talking to those who want to debate. Who are 'we' by the way? It's amazing how often people who simply want to argue rather than debate need to speak for others not just themselves. :grin:
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Frank Nouble 3

Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Frank Nouble 3 » January 14th, 2020, 4:44 pm

excessbee wrote:Frank, survival in League One would need a core of players who have played at that level. Which of our current players fit the bill? I mean having played more than a handful of games.

Will get back to you tea beckons.
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Fourthousand

Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Fourthousand » January 14th, 2020, 4:48 pm

Frank Nouble 3 wrote:
Fourthousand wrote:
Frank Nouble 3 wrote:
UPTHEPORT wrote:
allontheamber wrote:I'm in the camp that had we have gone up last season it could have been a disaster. I don't want to see the demise of the club similar to that which started ok n 1986/87.
When we go up, and it will happen one day, we need security of ground tenure, financial stability, administrative infrastructure.
When we go up we need things in place that will see us safe in League 1 for the next three years.
I don't want promotion believing we would come straight back down.


If you remember there were some posters on here saying promotion to the football league was to early

I don't get those arguments we just need to push on

Got to agree 100% here.

Over the years heard so many stories of clubs not wanting promotion and deliberately slowing up as the season finishes.
Lets hope we never get that attitude.
We go up make a lot of bucks, struggle bounce back down.
So be then we go again.
Seriously if we went up we would be okay in middle or just under with the squad we have now anyway.


Make lots of bucks you say - tell us how much extra 'bucks' we would make?

I believe we would qualify for solidarity payments.
I believe attendances would increase by a good few £K per game.
We would have sell out away end support with the possibility of Pompey/Sunderland/Rovers even possibly Plymouth.
Coventry/ Wigan etc would bring more than Stevenage/ Crawley etc blimey Stoke may be in the equation also.
Think most supporters would be happy to see an increase on home tickets to see superior teams at RP also.
Hence that's my reply.


It's the pedant again - this time because I try not to play fast and loose with the facts.

Last season, Tranmere's average attendance was circa double ours at 7000 - season to date they are still around that level (just slightly worse infact from the figs I had seen after 11 home games in).

So no extra bucks from the gate numbers going up should we perform to a similar level to the team that beat us in the play offs. Now we might be an area that had a greater propensity to grow our support than does that of the Tranmere area - I would concede that it is a possibility, but it's certainly not a given (and especially so if your second point about pushing up match day prices is implemented). I wouldn't go to the bank on that.

An additional £250k solidarity payment over that of L2 teams is what we would get on a promotion.

So in summary, I don't see circa £250k as 'a lot of bucks' and against that a promotion is likely to attract more costs (and even if it didn't attract more costs, the additional payment would only go to fill the hole in our annual overspend in getting a team on the park).

It is purely conjecture on your part that the current group of players would be suitable as the core for a competitive team in the league above, and certainly so for last season's squad when we just snuck into the play off's and would have qualified as the 4th team out of the league.
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Stan A. Einstein

Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Stan A. Einstein » January 14th, 2020, 5:04 pm

Fourthousand wrote:
Frank Nouble 3 wrote:
Fourthousand wrote:
Frank Nouble 3 wrote:
UPTHEPORT wrote:
allontheamber wrote:I'm in the camp that had we have gone up last season it could have been a disaster. I don't want to see the demise of the club similar to that which started ok n 1986/87.
When we go up, and it will happen one day, we need security of ground tenure, financial stability, administrative infrastructure.
When we go up we need things in place that will see us safe in League 1 for the next three years.
I don't want promotion believing we would come straight back down.


If you remember there were some posters on here saying promotion to the football league was to early

I don't get those arguments we just need to push on

Got to agree 100% here.

Over the years heard so many stories of clubs not wanting promotion and deliberately slowing up as the season finishes.
Lets hope we never get that attitude.
We go up make a lot of bucks, struggle bounce back down.
So be then we go again.
Seriously if we went up we would be okay in middle or just under with the squad we have now anyway.


Make lots of bucks you say - tell us how much extra 'bucks' we would make?

I believe we would qualify for solidarity payments.
I believe attendances would increase by a good few £K per game.
We would have sell out away end support with the possibility of Pompey/Sunderland/Rovers even possibly Plymouth.
Coventry/ Wigan etc would bring more than Stevenage/ Crawley etc blimey Stoke may be in the equation also.
Think most supporters would be happy to see an increase on home tickets to see superior teams at RP also.
Hence that's my reply.


It's the pedant again - this time because I try not to play fast and loose with the facts.

Last season, Tranmere's average attendance was circa double ours at 7000 - season to date they are still around that level (just slightly worse infact from the figs I had seen after 11 home games in).

So no extra bucks from the gate numbers going up should we perform to a similar level to the team that beat us in the play offs. Now we might be an area that had a greater propensity to grow our support than does that of the Tranmere area - I would concede that it is a possibility, but it certainly not a given (and especially so if your second point about pushing up match day prices is implemented). I wouldn't go to the bank on that.

An additional £250k for solidarity payment over that of L2 teams is what we would get.

So in summary, I don't see circa £250k as 'a lot of bucks' and against that a promotion is likely to attract more costs (and even if it didn't attract more costs, the additional payment would only go to fill the hole in our annual overspend in getting a team on the park).

It is purely conjecture on your part that the current group of players would be suitable as the core for a competitive team in the league above, and certainly so for last season's squad when we just snuck into the play off's and would have qualified as the 4th team out of the league.


£250,000. Would mean in a squad of 25 players each on average would be on an extra £10,000.

And if it only fills an overspend, is that not better than a debt of £250,000?

And that makes the assumption that County's gates would not increase.
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Frank Nouble 3

Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Frank Nouble 3 » January 14th, 2020, 5:26 pm

Fourthousand wrote:
Frank Nouble 3 wrote:
Fourthousand wrote:
Frank Nouble 3 wrote:
UPTHEPORT wrote:
allontheamber wrote:I'm in the camp that had we have gone up last season it could have been a disaster. I don't want to see the demise of the club similar to that which started ok n 1986/87.
When we go up, and it will happen one day, we need security of ground tenure, financial stability, administrative infrastructure.
When we go up we need things in place that will see us safe in League 1 for the next three years.
I don't want promotion believing we would come straight back down.


If you remember there were some posters on here saying promotion to the football league was to early

I don't get those arguments we just need to push on

Got to agree 100% here.

Over the years heard so many stories of clubs not wanting promotion and deliberately slowing up as the season finishes.
Lets hope we never get that attitude.
We go up make a lot of bucks, struggle bounce back down.
So be then we go again.
Seriously if we went up we would be okay in middle or just under with the squad we have now anyway.


Make lots of bucks you say - tell us how much extra 'bucks' we would make?

I believe we would qualify for solidarity payments.
I believe attendances would increase by a good few £K per game.
We would have sell out away end support with the possibility of Pompey/Sunderland/Rovers even possibly Plymouth.
Coventry/ Wigan etc would bring more than Stevenage/ Crawley etc blimey Stoke may be in the equation also.
Think most supporters would be happy to see an increase on home tickets to see superior teams at RP also.
Hence that's my reply.


It's the pedant again - this time because I try not to play fast and loose with the facts.

Last season, Tranmere's average attendance was circa double ours at 7000 - season to date they are still around that level (just slightly worse infact from the figs I had seen after 11 home games in).

So no extra bucks from the gate numbers going up should we perform to a similar level to the team that beat us in the play offs. Now we might be an area that had a greater propensity to grow our support than does that of the Tranmere area - I would concede that it is a possibility, but it's certainly not a given (and especially so if your second point about pushing up match day prices is implemented). I wouldn't go to the bank on that.

An additional £250k solidarity payment over that of L2 teams is what we would get on a promotion.

So in summary, I don't see circa £250k as 'a lot of bucks' and against that a promotion is likely to attract more costs (and even if it didn't attract more costs, the additional payment would only go to fill the hole in our annual overspend in getting a team on the park).

It is purely conjecture on your part that the current group of players would be suitable as the core for a competitive team in the league above, and certainly so for last season's squad when we just snuck into the play off's and would have qualified as the 4th team out of the league.

The pedant is a term of endearment and thanks for as always keeping in the main insults out of the conversation.
Regarding Tranmere as you know they have played at higher levels than us for a very long time.
Promotion back to 1 will not bring in new support.
The novelty of County playing a league higher certainly will imo.
Across the Mersey are 2 big clubs.
You never mentioned the away attendance from the bigger clubs either.
Agree its all conjecture, without that no need for a forum and we can all read a good book instead
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