Carefull what you wish for?

Newport County natter & football chatter.
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Frank Nouble 3

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Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Frank Nouble 3 » January 14th, 2020, 5:45 pm

excessbee wrote:Frank, survival in League One would need a core of players who have played at that level. Which of our current players fit the bill? I mean having played more than a handful of games.

IMO all these players would be comfortable a league higher.
Flynny and Foxhall are not naïve and they would bring in 3-4 experienced players at that level

To answer

Just Ryan & Joss

In reply did Hughsey/ Dan/ Washington even Rodman etc etc .
Of course not.
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Fourthousand

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Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Fourthousand » January 14th, 2020, 6:29 pm

Frank Nouble 3 wrote:
Fourthousand wrote:
Frank Nouble 3 wrote:
Fourthousand wrote:
Frank Nouble 3 wrote:
UPTHEPORT wrote:
allontheamber wrote:I'm in the camp that had we have gone up last season it could have been a disaster. I don't want to see the demise of the club similar to that which started ok n 1986/87.
When we go up, and it will happen one day, we need security of ground tenure, financial stability, administrative infrastructure.
When we go up we need things in place that will see us safe in League 1 for the next three years.
I don't want promotion believing we would come straight back down.


If you remember there were some posters on here saying promotion to the football league was to early

I don't get those arguments we just need to push on

Got to agree 100% here.

Over the years heard so many stories of clubs not wanting promotion and deliberately slowing up as the season finishes.
Lets hope we never get that attitude.
We go up make a lot of bucks, struggle bounce back down.
So be then we go again.
Seriously if we went up we would be okay in middle or just under with the squad we have now anyway.


Make lots of bucks you say - tell us how much extra 'bucks' we would make?

I believe we would qualify for solidarity payments.
I believe attendances would increase by a good few £K per game.
We would have sell out away end support with the possibility of Pompey/Sunderland/Rovers even possibly Plymouth.
Coventry/ Wigan etc would bring more than Stevenage/ Crawley etc blimey Stoke may be in the equation also.
Think most supporters would be happy to see an increase on home tickets to see superior teams at RP also.
Hence that's my reply.


It's the pedant again - this time because I try not to play fast and loose with the facts.

Last season, Tranmere's average attendance was circa double ours at 7000 - season to date they are still around that level (just slightly worse infact from the figs I had seen after 11 home games in).

So no extra bucks from the gate numbers going up should we perform to a similar level to the team that beat us in the play offs. Now we might be an area that had a greater propensity to grow our support than does that of the Tranmere area - I would concede that it is a possibility, but it's certainly not a given (and especially so if your second point about pushing up match day prices is implemented). I wouldn't go to the bank on that.

An additional £250k solidarity payment over that of L2 teams is what we would get on a promotion.

So in summary, I don't see circa £250k as 'a lot of bucks' and against that a promotion is likely to attract more costs (and even if it didn't attract more costs, the additional payment would only go to fill the hole in our annual overspend in getting a team on the park).

It is purely conjecture on your part that the current group of players would be suitable as the core for a competitive team in the league above, and certainly so for last season's squad when we just snuck into the play off's and would have qualified as the 4th team out of the league.

The pedant is a term of endearment and thanks for as always keeping in the main insults out of the conversation.
Regarding Tranmere as you know they have played at higher levels than us for a very long time.
Promotion back to 1 will not bring in new support.
The novelty of County playing a league higher certainly will imo.
Across the Mersey are 2 big clubs.
You never mentioned the away attendance from the bigger clubs either.
Agree its all conjecture, without that no need for a forum and we can all read a good book instead


You are correct I didn't include the away attendance (from the bigger clubs) as they are factored into the Tranmere total average attendance figs quoted above i.e their total gates remained at the same levels including away fans (with maybe an improved away support but then meaning less home fans).
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Frank Nouble 3

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Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Frank Nouble 3 » January 14th, 2020, 6:39 pm

They are struggling which doesn't help attendances increasing.
I fairness it would maybe happen with us but if we kept mid table think they would be okay.
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Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby lowandhard » January 14th, 2020, 6:42 pm

Perhaps it’s me but I’m not getting all this lack of ambition.

1) The point of playing is to win, at the highest level that you can achieve.
2) you can’t decide to be promoted when you’re ready - whenever that would be.

Taking those together then you must always be ready to go for it. After all , as Stan has pointed out relegation from L2 is far worse than from L1. A supporters direct young woman I was chatting to at one meeting informed me that the average wage bill in L1 is £3.5 million as opposed to about £1.5 million in L2 and therein lies the rub. Perhaps those figures are a bit different now , I don’t know, but what it does show is that there’s a need to be ambitious as to be financially successful as well as on the playing front so we must improve income streams. As has been pointed out elsewhere though there are teams that successfully buck the trend like Accrington Stanley.

Although I don’t support the following particular team, it seems to me we could do with a bit of “ per ardua ad astra “ at this club amongst the supporters not just the players who I’m sure go out every game to win , not to settle for L2 “safety” - if there is such a thing one step from oblivion.
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Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Amberexile » January 14th, 2020, 6:54 pm

How much of a pay rise would Flynn have earned if he got us promoted?
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Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Fourthousand » January 14th, 2020, 7:06 pm

lowandhard wrote:Perhaps it’s me but I’m not getting all this lack of ambition.

1) The point of playing is to win, at the highest level that you can achieve.
2) you can’t decide to be promoted when you’re ready - whenever that would be.

Taking those together then you must always be ready to go for it. After all , as Stan has pointed out relegation from L2 is far worse than from L1. A supporters direct young woman I was chatting to at one meeting informed me that the average wage bill in L1 is £3.5 million as opposed to about £1.5 million in L2 and therein lies the rub. Perhaps those figures are a bit different now , I don’t know, but what it does show is that there’s a need to be ambitious as to be financially successful as well as on the playing front so we must improve income streams. As has been pointed out elsewhere though there are teams that successfully buck the trend like Accrington Stanley.

Although I don’t support the following particular team, it seems to me we could do with a bit of “ per ardua ad astra “ at this club amongst the supporters not just the players who I’m sure go out every game to win , not to settle for L2 “safety” - if there is such a thing one step from oblivion.


I don't think there is any lack of ambition amongst fans but I'll talk about myself. I want to win every throw in, the choice of ends and humiliate the opposition at every turn. I want County to win every single time the whistle blows. But, and here is the but, I don't want us to chase a promotion by jeopardising the very existence of the club, now that could be in the form of a short-term throwing finite money at 'it' in the hope that it 'delivers',or by making decisions that could potentially destabilise the club because some other person is thought to be able to 'deliver'.

Yes we need to develop the financial streams - we haven't got them, we are not there - yet. When we do we can progress.

If it was a gilt edged guaranteed that we would be forever successful, we would never trade insolvent, never go out of business, never drop to the lowest tiers of non league - then I would be all in. But, it's not like that is it and so and until it is I will always look at the upside of a decision and the downside of a decision and for me the risk at present doesn't justify the reward (the risk is oblivion). Imo we are not ready as the club is set up today to chase a promotion.
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Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby lowandhard » January 14th, 2020, 7:30 pm

Fourthousand wrote:
lowandhard wrote:Perhaps it’s me but I’m not getting all this lack of ambition.

1) The point of playing is to win, at the highest level that you can achieve.
2) you can’t decide to be promoted when you’re ready - whenever that would be.

Taking those together then you must always be ready to go for it. After all , as Stan has pointed out relegation from L2 is far worse than from L1. A supporters direct young woman I was chatting to at one meeting informed me that the average wage bill in L1 is £3.5 million as opposed to about £1.5 million in L2 and therein lies the rub. Perhaps those figures are a bit different now , I don’t know, but what it does show is that there’s a need to be ambitious as to be financially successful as well as on the playing front so we must improve income streams. As has been pointed out elsewhere though there are teams that successfully buck the trend like Accrington Stanley.

Although I don’t support the following particular team, it seems to me we could do with a bit of “ per ardua ad astra “ at this club amongst the supporters not just the players who I’m sure go out every game to win , not to settle for L2 “safety” - if there is such a thing one step from oblivion.


I don't think there is any lack of ambition amongst fans but I'll talk about myself. I want to win every throw in, the choice of ends and humiliate the opposition at every turn. I want County to win every single time the whistle blows. But, and here is the but, I don't want us to chase a promotion by jeopardising the very existence of the club, now that could be in the form of a short-term throwing finite money at 'it' in the hope that it 'delivers',or by making decisions that could potentially destabilise the club because some other person is thought to be able to 'deliver'.

Yes we need to develop the financial streams - we haven't got them, we are not there - yet. When we do we can progress.

If it was a gilt edged guaranteed that we would be forever successful, we would never trade insolvent, never go out of business, never drop to the lowest tiers of non league - then I would be all in. But, it's not like that is it and so and until it is I will always look at the upside of a decision and the downside of a decision and for me the risk at present doesn't justify the reward (the risk is oblivion). Imo we are not ready as the club is set up today to chase a promotion.


I’m not advocating recklessness in financial matters. I just think that if you expect nothing , you get nothing. Promotion should be the aim every season, every game as far as I’m concerned. I don’t know how else you approach a league competition as a fan, as a player, as a manager, as a club.
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Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Frank Nouble 3 » January 14th, 2020, 7:37 pm

If we stayed as we are no huge financial extras involved and we went on a run like last year .
Can you believe fans would want us to start loosing rather than gaining promotion.
I can remember our first year back and supporters saying whatever happens we mustn't go up on the bounce.
It would be a disaster!
Crazy in my eyes.
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Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Fourthousand » January 14th, 2020, 8:13 pm

lowandhard wrote:
Fourthousand wrote:
lowandhard wrote:Perhaps it’s me but I’m not getting all this lack of ambition.

1) The point of playing is to win, at the highest level that you can achieve.
2) you can’t decide to be promoted when you’re ready - whenever that would be.

Taking those together then you must always be ready to go for it. After all , as Stan has pointed out relegation from L2 is far worse than from L1. A supporters direct young woman I was chatting to at one meeting informed me that the average wage bill in L1 is £3.5 million as opposed to about £1.5 million in L2 and therein lies the rub. Perhaps those figures are a bit different now , I don’t know, but what it does show is that there’s a need to be ambitious as to be financially successful as well as on the playing front so we must improve income streams. As has been pointed out elsewhere though there are teams that successfully buck the trend like Accrington Stanley.

Although I don’t support the following particular team, it seems to me we could do with a bit of “ per ardua ad astra “ at this club amongst the supporters not just the players who I’m sure go out every game to win , not to settle for L2 “safety” - if there is such a thing one step from oblivion.


I don't think there is any lack of ambition amongst fans but I'll talk about myself. I want to win every throw in, the choice of ends and humiliate the opposition at every turn. I want County to win every single time the whistle blows. But, and here is the but, I don't want us to chase a promotion by jeopardising the very existence of the club, now that could be in the form of a short-term throwing finite money at 'it' in the hope that it 'delivers',or by making decisions that could potentially destabilise the club because some other person is thought to be able to 'deliver'.

Yes we need to develop the financial streams - we haven't got them, we are not there - yet. When we do we can progress.

If it was a gilt edged guaranteed that we would be forever successful, we would never trade insolvent, never go out of business, never drop to the lowest tiers of non league - then I would be all in. But, it's not like that is it and so and until it is I will always look at the upside of a decision and the downside of a decision and for me the risk at present doesn't justify the reward (the risk is oblivion). Imo we are not ready as the club is set up today to chase a promotion.


I’m not advocating recklessness in financial matters. I just think that if you expect nothing , you get nothing. Promotion should be the aim every season, every game as far as I’m concerned. I don’t know how else you approach a league competition as a fan, as a player, as a manager, as a club.


I totally agree with you on the approach - it is impossible to do otherwise . It is a cavaliar attitude of chasing a promotion (which does have financial implications) that I would an issue with. In short, I don't think it is 'all that' anyway; we are not in good enough shape as a club (revenue streams/ organisation/infrastructure) imo to make a promotion 'sticky' and the financial downsides of chasing it could be our undoing.. If the team gets a promotion organically/ within the playing budget/ within our means whilst not endangering the long term financial future of the club then of course we will take it with open arms, fantastic, it wouldn't come much better than that.
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Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby whoareya » January 14th, 2020, 8:41 pm

lowandhard wrote:
Fourthousand wrote:
lowandhard wrote:Perhaps it’s me but I’m not getting all this lack of ambition.

1) The point of playing is to win, at the highest level that you can achieve.
2) you can’t decide to be promoted when you’re ready - whenever that would be.

Taking those together then you must always be ready to go for it. After all , as Stan has pointed out relegation from L2 is far worse than from L1. A supporters direct young woman I was chatting to at one meeting informed me that the average wage bill in L1 is £3.5 million as opposed to about £1.5 million in L2 and therein lies the rub. Perhaps those figures are a bit different now , I don’t know, but what it does show is that there’s a need to be ambitious as to be financially successful as well as on the playing front so we must improve income streams. As has been pointed out elsewhere though there are teams that successfully buck the trend like Accrington Stanley.

Although I don’t support the following particular team, it seems to me we could do with a bit of “ per ardua ad astra “ at this club amongst the supporters not just the players who I’m sure go out every game to win , not to settle for L2 “safety” - if there is such a thing one step from oblivion.


I don't think there is any lack of ambition amongst fans but I'll talk about myself. I want to win every throw in, the choice of ends and humiliate the opposition at every turn. I want County to win every single time the whistle blows. But, and here is the but, I don't want us to chase a promotion by jeopardising the very existence of the club, now that could be in the form of a short-term throwing finite money at 'it' in the hope that it 'delivers',or by making decisions that could potentially destabilise the club because some other person is thought to be able to 'deliver'.

Yes we need to develop the financial streams - we haven't got them, we are not there - yet. When we do we can progress.

If it was a gilt edged guaranteed that we would be forever successful, we would never trade insolvent, never go out of business, never drop to the lowest tiers of non league - then I would be all in. But, it's not like that is it and so and until it is I will always look at the upside of a decision and the downside of a decision and for me the risk at present doesn't justify the reward (the risk is oblivion). Imo we are not ready as the club is set up today to chase a promotion.


I’m not advocating recklessness in financial matters. I just think that if you expect nothing , you get nothing. Promotion should be the aim every season, every game as far as I’m concerned. I don’t know how else you approach a league competition as a fan, as a player, as a manager, as a club.
.


Promise low, deliver high.

One of the very few business development strategies that I've found to be sound advice.
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Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Spiderman » January 14th, 2020, 10:24 pm

The increased average supporter base is the first step , we’ve come a long way in just 10 years and some people should remember that.
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Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Marky » January 14th, 2020, 10:25 pm

What if we get promoted then get relegated? What if don't get promoted then get relegated? I'd rather be relegated from League 1 than League 2.
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Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby SJG99 » January 16th, 2020, 5:38 pm

excessbee wrote:What a bizarre idea! So this team is actually too good for League Two?


It would be if we could get the XI on the pitch to put in the amount of effort ALL the time that they did in the second half at Scunthorpe (which tbf they did for most of the last 10 matches of last season).

Without the effort though, 10+ league games without a win.
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Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby SJG99 » January 16th, 2020, 5:39 pm

Spiderman wrote:The increased average supporter base is the first step , we’ve come a long way in just 10 years and some people should remember that.


I don't see Fleetwood worrying about that kind of stuff.
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Re: Carefull what you wish for?

Postby Frank Nouble 3 » January 18th, 2020, 8:17 pm

Frank Nouble 3 wrote:
excessbee wrote:
Frank Nouble 3 wrote:


......... Seriously if we went up we would be okay in middle or just under with the squad we have now anyway.


How do you square this statement with the current dissatisfaction with performances and poor points return?

Simple because we always play better against better sides rather than hoof ball against the dross.
We very rarely hammer a poor team.
EG all the cup games.
Plymouth/ Crewe home this season.
FGR away.
Even MK Dons in Mickey Mouse cup.
We just get drawn down to crap teams level unfortunately.
Pretty sure we will play well Saturday against quality.
Look at Yeovil 0-6 and they get relegated.
Says it all really.


Frank knows what he is talking about.
Was always 3 points today.

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