DeePeeNCAFC wrote:Our financial situation is only marginally better than other clubs because (a) we don't own our own ground and (b) we won't have to contribute towards replacing the pitch for a while.

If one looked at the accounts in detail e.g. fixed assets and value of things we own, this would be miserably lower than even most NL teams, albeit some will have loans, mortgages and standing charges against those assets.

I genuinely don't know. If you are right then the Argue report is wrong. And this is the point I'm trying to make. Two criteria are being put forward. They are mutually exclusive. We are either financially in good shape or we are not. It would be nice to have some clarity.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

UPTHEPORT wrote:

Stan A. Einstein wrote:Having read the Argus report it states that County's financial position is far healthier than most lower league clubs.

Does rather kick into touch the idea that having a smaller budget than most of our rivals is an excuse for our drastic collapse in form over the final six months of the suspended/aborted season.

Either could be true but hard to see how both are.

If that is the case then well done the board for getting us to such a stable position

If you have money, you have a choice. You can spend it or you can save it. Both options come with plusses and minuses. And you then argue what option and to what degree you take.

My point is that you can't choose to save and claim that you don't have the money to compete. You can make a logical argument that you save for a rainy day, you can make a logical argument that you should eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die.

Logically Stan if the budget is set from ST money attendance sponsorship and match day income then it is not unreasonable to conclude we are at the lower end of a budget table compared to others and may not be able willing or foolish enough to compete with other clubs for certain signings this of course does not excuse recent form as the budget for previous season didn’t prevent a play off final or place in 5 th round of the fa cup.it is good to know we have been careful with certain proceeds if it has led us to be in the position now and I expect monies from PL/EFL have helped the cause.1 question and not meant to be mischievous but if the club had said they are working on a small budget because we have put aside prize money for the last cpl of seasons to part fund a new stadium or buy out WRU would you of accepted a small budget for players

Stan. I do believe there is some money in the club bank account from ticket sales, cup runs and sponsorship from PP. Although this money is obviously dwindling the longer we go on with the same overheads but no further income. So this will probably see us through the summer.

But as for being considerably better off than other Lge2 clubs, no I don't think so. But when we come through this pandemic football will be a whole lot different. I firmly believe wage caps or a stricter version of current FFP rules will be introduced, and players will see their own income reduce while clubs will be forced to use youngsters earning just a few quid if they want a squad with several seasoned pros. I can also see regionalised Lge1 & 2 divisions not far away because clubs will need to cut costs and the best way to attract higher crowds (from the public who will be worse off post pandemic) is to have more local derbies.

DeePeeNCAFC wrote:Stan. I do believe there is some money in the club bank account from ticket sales, cup runs and sponsorship from PP. Although this money is obviously dwindling the longer we go on with the same overheads but no further income. So this will probably see us through the summer.

But as for being considerably better off than other Lge2 clubs, no I don't think so. But when we come through this pandemic football will be a whole lot different. I firmly believe wage caps or a stricter version of current FFP rules will be introduced, and players will see their own income reduce while clubs will be forced to use youngsters earning just a few quid if they want a squad with several seasoned pros. I can also see regionalised Lge1 & 2 divisions not far away because clubs will need to cut costs and the best way to attract higher crowds (from the public who will be worse off post pandemic) is to have more local derbies.

The Premier League and EFL may want to introduce a wage cap. Unfortunately, and I would love to see a wage cap, the first player and club to argue that such a wage cap is an unfair restriction of trade would succeed and smash the entire system.

Imagine you went into work and your employer said I'm cutting your wages by 50%, you think you'd accept that? Whether we like it or not, personally I hate it, football is a circus. Players and their agents have all the power. Laced footballs, the smell of woodbine cigarettes, 46 games all kicking off at 3-00pm on a Saturday, one club players being the norm, gone like our youth, never to return.

phil crump wrote:

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

UPTHEPORT wrote:

Stan A. Einstein wrote:Having read the Argus report it states that County's financial position is far healthier than most lower league clubs.

Does rather kick into touch the idea that having a smaller budget than most of our rivals is an excuse for our drastic collapse in form over the final six months of the suspended/aborted season.

Either could be true but hard to see how both are.

If that is the case then well done the board for getting us to such a stable position

If you have money, you have a choice. You can spend it or you can save it. Both options come with plusses and minuses. And you then argue what option and to what degree you take.

My point is that you can't choose to save and claim that you don't have the money to compete. You can make a logical argument that you save for a rainy day, you can make a logical argument that you should eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die.

Logically Stan if the budget is set from ST money attendance sponsorship and match day income then it is not unreasonable to conclude we are at the lower end of a budget table compared to others and may not be able willing or foolish enough to compete with other clubs for certain signings this of course does not excuse recent form as the budget for previous season didn’t prevent a play off final or place in 5 th round of the fa cup.it is good to know we have been careful with certain proceeds if it has led us to be in the position now and I expect monies from PL/EFL have helped the cause.1 question and not meant to be mischievous but if the club had said they are working on a small budget because we have put aside prize money for the last cpl of seasons to part fund a new stadium or buy out WRU would you of accepted a small budget for players

You're certainly not being mischievous, but I think you may be missing what I'm trying to say. I am not being critical or supportive of how the club spend their income. That is a matter for legitimate debate and people will, and should, take different views. And every single individual, myself included, should thank God that we don't all think alike.

However for the final time, whilst you can predicate an argument reliant on County being paupers, or you can predicate an argument reliant on County be financially in a good position, what you can not do is predicate an argument on both being true at the same time.

Well you can. Off the field we have money set aside which is needed so that we can continue to be able to pay the bills going forward, which is the correct thing to do in my eyes. On the pitch we have a smaller playing budget than most in our league as we have to live within our means because we have no rich financial backers.

Exile 1976 wrote:Well you can. Off the field we have money set aside which is needed so that we can continue to be able to pay the bills going forward, which is the correct thing to do in my eyes. On the pitch we have a smaller playing budget than most in our league as we have to live within our means because we have no rich financial backers.

It's not just me but it is that simple isn't it?

Papski2 wrote:

Exile 1976 wrote:Well you can. Off the field we have money set aside which is needed so that we can continue to be able to pay the bills going forward, which is the correct thing to do in my eyes. On the pitch we have a smaller playing budget than most in our league as we have to live within our means because we have no rich financial backers.

It's not just me but it is that simple isn't it?

Simple but wrong. You can argue that poor league form is down to not having the money to attract a high enough quality of player. But if you look at the argument you are making, what you are saying is that in order not to be financially embarrassed we have to have a substandard quality of player. If that is correct it becomes a false economy. And by definition we are not in a healthy financial position.

It's relatively easy to introduce a legal wages cap. The league simply dictate how many squad players a team can register (the maximum, not a bad idea), what % of total income can be spent on wages, stadia, academy outgoings etc.

That way, the clubs have to live within their means and if, say, their income only justified £200K pa being spent on wages well that equals 25 players and staff each on an average of £650pw. If the club want to pay someone more than that this means they need a couple of cheaper, youth players in their squad to offset this.

Clubs submit their accounts (full versions, not hiding behind the current corporate law which says they only need to submit simplified accounts if their income is below x - this is what has got so many clubs into hock already). The league verify them before agreeing if they can rejoin the league next season.

The only downside will be that the biggest clubs get bigger and more successful, e.g. your Bradfords and Sunderlands with a bigger fanbase and bigger income can afford to pay higher wages.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

Papski2 wrote:

Exile 1976 wrote:Well you can. Off the field we have money set aside which is needed so that we can continue to be able to pay the bills going forward, which is the correct thing to do in my eyes. On the pitch we have a smaller playing budget than most in our league as we have to live within our means because we have no rich financial backers.

It's not just me but it is that simple isn't it?

Simple but wrong. You can argue that poor league form is down to not having the money to attract a high enough quality of player. But if you look at the argument you are making, what you are saying is that in order not to be financially embarrassed we have to have a substandard quality of player. If that is correct it becomes a false economy. And by definition we are not in a healthy financial position.

Well, no. If the club gambled and spunked money on players that we hoped would win us promotion and we failed (like many teams that overspend) we’re stuck with a team of high earners and no money to pay the bills going forward.
We have to be sensible in the wages we’re paying out that allows us to be competitive, as it did last season, but still gives us some security.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:
Simple but wrong. You can argue that poor league form is down to not having the money to attract a high enough quality of player. But if you look at the argument you are making, what you are saying is that in order not to be financially embarrassed we have to have a substandard quality of player. If that is correct it becomes a false economy. And by definition we are not in a healthy financial position.

But that depends upon your definition of 'substandard players'. It could be argued that if, say, the top eight teams are serious contenders for promotion then two thirds of the teams have substandard players or rather, a substandard team. I'd argue that the next eight teams are on their day, competetive in the league and the bottom eight have, on balance, too many substandard players. We're in the middle bracket. If, with that comes financial security, that's fine by me.

excessbee wrote:

Stan A. Einstein wrote:
Simple but wrong. You can argue that poor league form is down to not having the money to attract a high enough quality of player. But if you look at the argument you are making, what you are saying is that in order not to be financially embarrassed we have to have a substandard quality of player. If that is correct it becomes a false economy. And by definition we are not in a healthy financial position.

But that depends upon your definition of 'substandard players'. It could be argued that if, say, the top eight teams are serious contenders for promotion then two thirds of the teams have substandard players or rather, a substandard team. I'd argue that the next eight teams are on their day, competetive in the league and the bottom eight have, on balance, too many substandard players. We're in the middle bracket. If, with that comes financial security, that's fine by me.

With the play-off system more than eight teams last season went into the final day of the regular season with a realistic chance of promotion. You really must learn to think through your arguments.

To say that that I have a salary to save money so long as I never take a holiday would in my view be an analogy which clearly points out the absurdity of your argument. If Newport County do not have an income to compete in Division Four we are not financially sound.

By the way in the fifty odd years I have watched football only Everyon, Liverpool and Arsenal have I not seen relegated. We will be relegated, let's hope not from League 2.

Is it possible for you to provide a link to this article fella?

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport ... ent-staff/

Is it this one?

[. But if you look at the argument you are making, what you are saying is that in order not to be financially embarrassed we have to have a substandard quality of player. If that is correct it becomes a false economy. And by definition we are not in a healthy financial position.[/quote]

Stan. I think you've missed one point in this argument.....
Clubs the size of us and with similar budgets have TWO choices if we want to survive or even prosper - recruit substandard players as you suggest OR invest in youth. Younger players, either homegrown through our academy or dropping out of PL academies like Danny Rose did are the key to success IMO. They're cheap, keen to impress, easier to mould into our style of play and have a point to prove. Plus the fans prefer watching them to some journeyman.

As you suggest, County have gone in the opposite direction, not helped by the ridiculous and restrictive toe-in with Elite, and recruited quantity rather than quality. Topped up with occasional loans from Brizzle City etc.

Next season, whenever that is, we must recognise our faults and improve. There will be twice as many out of work players after this pandemic and the power players had around getting higher wages will reduce as the club's which survive won't want to gamble in case covid-21, worse flooding etc strikes next year.

DeePeeNCAFC wrote:[. But if you look at the argument you are making, what you are saying is that in order not to be financially embarrassed we have to have a substandard quality of player. If that is correct it becomes a false economy. And by definition we are not in a healthy financial position.

Stan. I think you've missed one point in this argument.....
Clubs the size of us and with similar budgets have TWO choices if we want to survive or even prosper - recruit substandard players as you suggest OR invest in youth. Younger players, either homegrown through our academy or dropping out of PL academies like Danny Rose did are the key to success IMO. They're cheap, keen to impress, easier to mould into our style of play and have a point to prove. Plus the fans prefer watching them to some journeyman.

As you suggest, County have gone in the opposite direction, not helped by the ridiculous and restrictive toe-in with Elite, and recruited quantity rather than quality. Topped up with occasional loans from Brizzle City etc.

Next season, whenever that is, we must recognise our faults and improve. There will be twice as many out of work players after this pandemic and the power players had around getting higher wages will reduce as the club's which survive won't want to gamble in case covid-21, worse flooding etc strikes next year.[/quote]

I agree with the point you make about clubs having choices to make. That is true of ever club at every level. I certainly agree about investing in youth. However an excuse made on this board for poor performance is that County stand out as being impoverished compared to our competitors. If that is correct we can't suddenly be in a healthy financial position compared to our competitors.

My argument, I use the word as a synonym for debate rather than row, is with those who maintain that we have limited resources compared to other clubs. My view is that excuses are easy to make but that the potential that exists in Newport is for a club of greater achievement than has been the case up until now.

Developing your point about where to invest. Youth and infrastructure is the areas we need to develop.