Fans could be back at games in England by Christmas

Newport County natter & football chatter.
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excessbee

Re: Fans could be back at games in England by Christmas

Postby excessbee » November 19th, 2020, 2:19 pm

One reason for excluding away supporters is surely that it frees up more seats/terraces to accommodate home supporters. That would not be casual walk ups but those who have shown their commitment by buying a season ticket, despite the possibility/probability of not attending a game. I have no complaints about not attending any away matches.
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Stan A. Einstein

Re: Fans could be back at games in England by Christmas

Postby Stan A. Einstein » November 19th, 2020, 3:29 pm

excessbee wrote:One reason for excluding away supporters is surely that it frees up more seats/terraces to accommodate home supporters. That would not be casual walk ups but those who have shown their commitment by buying a season ticket, despite the possibility/probability of not attending a game. I have no complaints about not attending any away matches.


Pause for a moment.

Newport County have received the monies from season ticket holders. Therefore by allowing crowds to return on the basis you suggest would produce all of the additional costs of putting on the game without any additional income.
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faerun exile

Re: Fans could be back at games in England by Christmas

Postby faerun exile » November 19th, 2020, 3:46 pm

Stan A. Einstein wrote:
faerun exile wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
excessbee wrote:
Fu Ming wrote:A couple of things clubs could do to reduce contact is to have home fans only.
There by stopping away fans travelling in multiple occupancy vehicles, and potentially spreading the virus around the country.
Also if there are no away fans then open up both north and south terraces there by allowing more space between fans.
And all bars and food outlets on site to be shut so that fans are not congregating in these areas (admittedly a loss of revenue).


I thought it was taken as read that those conditions would be applied.


And County supporters who may well be season ticket holders who live in London, Workshop, Northampton, Reading, Taunton, Sheffield...................

I guess there is nothing to stop them doing the same as ST holders who live locally who can get in their car, drive to RP, get out of their car, put a mask on, walk into Dave, watch the match socially distanced, walk back to their car, take their mask off and drive home.


So why can't away supporters do that?

Rhetorical question that. Football supporters will drive to RP, get out of their car. Watch the match socially distanced. Return to car. And do ll this wearing a mask. Nobody will take a drink before or after the game. Everybody will behave responsibly.

Please don't try my patience. I disagree strongly with those who believe that the potential cost of returning fans to grounds is a price worth paying. However that argument is at least logical. The idea that large numbers of football supporters will all behave responsibly is nonsense.


Don't try my patience. Get over yourself.
Pretty obvious why no away fans will be permitted.
If anyone doesn't behave responsibly chuck them out. That's what stewards are for. 1,000+ fans present at the NI game this week and in previous trials in England seem to have passed off ok with no consequent reported Covid spikes. 1,000+ spectators will be allowed in this weekend for the Ulster v Scarletts game too. Perhaps rugby fans don't go to the pub before or after and behave responsibly at all times.
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Stan A. Einstein

Re: Fans could be back at games in England by Christmas

Postby Stan A. Einstein » November 19th, 2020, 4:58 pm

faerun exile wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
faerun exile wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
excessbee wrote:
Fu Ming wrote:A couple of things clubs could do to reduce contact is to have home fans only.
There by stopping away fans travelling in multiple occupancy vehicles, and potentially spreading the virus around the country.
Also if there are no away fans then open up both north and south terraces there by allowing more space between fans.
And all bars and food outlets on site to be shut so that fans are not congregating in these areas (admittedly a loss of revenue).


I thought it was taken as read that those conditions would be applied.


And County supporters who may well be season ticket holders who live in London, Workshop, Northampton, Reading, Taunton, Sheffield...................

I guess there is nothing to stop them doing the same as ST holders who live locally who can get in their car, drive to RP, get out of their car, put a mask on, walk into Dave, watch the match socially distanced, walk back to their car, take their mask off and drive home.


So why can't away supporters do that?

Rhetorical question that. Football supporters will drive to RP, get out of their car. Watch the match socially distanced. Return to car. And do ll this wearing a mask. Nobody will take a drink before or after the game. Everybody will behave responsibly.

Please don't try my patience. I disagree strongly with those who believe that the potential cost of returning fans to grounds is a price worth paying. However that argument is at least logical. The idea that large numbers of football supporters will all behave responsibly is nonsense.


Don't try my patience. Get over yourself.
Pretty obvious why no away fans will be permitted.
If anyone doesn't behave responsibly chuck them out. That's what stewards are for. 1,000+ fans present at the NI game this week and in previous trials in England seem to have passed off ok with no consequent reported Covid spikes. 1,000+ spectators will be allowed in this weekend for the Ulster v Scarletts game too. Perhaps rugby fans don't go to the pub before or after and behave responsibly at all times.


A number of points. Not least that the Stormont Executive is meeting as I write. Thanks to the idiots in the DUP it appears that there is a spike in Northern Ireland. Secondly I'm any event I don't think that rugby matches should be taking place. If I advocated that your post would have merit. I didn't so your argument there fails.

However you fail to address my point above. If County were to play in front of 1,000 spectators who have already paid for a season ticket the result would be that there would be the costs of putting on the game with no increase in income.

Do try to think things through before you post.
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excessbee

Re: Fans could be back at games in England by Christmas

Postby excessbee » November 19th, 2020, 5:33 pm

Stan A. Einstein wrote:
excessbee wrote:One reason for excluding away supporters is surely that it frees up more seats/terraces to accommodate home supporters. That would not be casual walk ups but those who have shown their commitment by buying a season ticket, despite the possibility/probability of not attending a game. I have no complaints about not attending any away matches.


Pause for a moment.

Newport County have received the monies from season ticket holders. Therefore by allowing crowds to return on the basis you suggest would produce all of the additional costs of putting on the game without any additional income.


I paused when the government announced the plan to have fans back from October was rescinded. You seem to have placed me in the camp of those who think this was a bad move. Not so, I accepted the decision was inevitable. The medical figures had stopped moving in the right direction. Maybe a vaccination programme will see a change much later in the season. My previous point was to explain why, even when fans are allowed back in reduced numbers, a blanket ban on away fans would be sensible, to free up space for home fans. Another reason of course is that any unacceptable behaviour is easier to deal with as all fans in the ground are logged by season ticket details.
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Blackandamber

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Re: Fans could be back at games in England by Christmas

Postby Blackandamber » November 19th, 2020, 5:34 pm

Yes but the 1000 County season ticket holders have paid for a product that they are not receiving.
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UPTHEPORT

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Re: Fans could be back at games in England by Christmas

Postby UPTHEPORT » November 19th, 2020, 5:36 pm

Blackandamber wrote:Yes but the 1000 County season ticket holders have paid for a product that they are not receiving.


In fairness we knew before we brought that we may not see in the flesh
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Stan A. Einstein

Re: Fans could be back at games in England by Christmas

Postby Stan A. Einstein » November 19th, 2020, 5:39 pm

Blackandamber wrote:Yes but the 1000 County season ticket holders have paid for a product that they are not receiving.


Yes, but would any season ticket holder want to put the club in financial difficulties?
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Blackandamber

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Re: Fans could be back at games in England by Christmas

Postby Blackandamber » November 19th, 2020, 7:11 pm

UPTHEPORT wrote:
Blackandamber wrote:Yes but the 1000 County season ticket holders have paid for a product that they are not receiving.


In fairness we knew before we brought that we may not see in the flesh


Indeed
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Blackandamber

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Cwmbran

Re: Fans could be back at games in England by Christmas

Postby Blackandamber » November 19th, 2020, 7:14 pm

Stan A. Einstein wrote:
Blackandamber wrote:Yes but the 1000 County season ticket holders have paid for a product that they are not receiving.


Yes, but would any season ticket holder want to put the club in financial difficulties?


No
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whoareya

Re: Fans could be back at games in England by Christmas

Postby whoareya » November 20th, 2020, 7:49 am

What exactly are the additional financial implications of letting a restricted number of home season ticket holders into games that are already taking place?

If you mean the cost of stewarding, turnstiles etc, then just apply a minimal surcharge as many car dealerships are doing if you want your car serviced, to cover additional PPE etc.
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Stan A. Einstein

Re: Fans could be back at games in England by Christmas

Postby Stan A. Einstein » November 20th, 2020, 4:09 pm

whoareya wrote:What exactly are the additional financial implications of letting a restricted number of home season ticket holders into games that are already taking place?

If you mean the cost of stewarding, turnstiles etc, then just apply a minimal surcharge as many car dealerships are doing if you want your car serviced, to cover additional PPE etc.


This figure is a guesstimate. But I hope not a ridiculous one.

Firstly there is the cost of stewarding. I don't know but with Covid restriction One steward per 25 supporters would not seem unreasonable. 40 stewards for five hours at Saturday rates. £20 x 5 x 40. £4,000 just for starters. The company which employs those stewards will want to make a profit, will have their own expenses, will have to make NI contributions. At a very conservative estimate a further £2,000. Policing costs for outside the stadium. Public liability insurance and so on another £5,000. And having to build in sanitary stations etc. These costs are not known to me, in reality they may be higher or lower. Likewise there may be costs of which I have not detailed. Now a father taking two kids to a game for which they all have tickets might be a bit miffed at having to fork out another £36 as a 'minimal' surcharge don't you think?.
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whoareya

Re: Fans could be back at games in England by Christmas

Postby whoareya » November 20th, 2020, 6:10 pm

Stan A. Einstein wrote:
whoareya wrote:What exactly are the additional financial implications of letting a restricted number of home season ticket holders into games that are already taking place?

If you mean the cost of stewarding, turnstiles etc, then just apply a minimal surcharge as many car dealerships are doing if you want your car serviced, to cover additional PPE etc.


This figure is a guesstimate. But I hope not a ridiculous one.

Firstly there is the cost of stewarding. I don't know but with Covid restriction One steward per 25 supporters would not seem unreasonable. 40 stewards for five hours at Saturday rates. £20 x 5 x 40. £4,000 just for starters. The company which employs those stewards will want to make a profit, will have their own expenses, will have to make NI contributions. At a very conservative estimate a further £2,000. Policing costs for outside the stadium. Public liability insurance and so on another £5,000. And having to build in sanitary stations etc. These costs are not known to me, in reality they may be higher or lower. Likewise there may be costs of which I have not detailed. Now a father taking two kids to a game for which they all have tickets might be a bit miffed at having to fork out another £36 as a 'minimal' surcharge don't you think?.


The 1000 limit would almost certainly rule out the family scenario you suggest and clubs don't pay anything for policing unless they attend inside the stadium, in this instance that wouldn't be needed. Even so, perhaps a dad would gladly pay a surcharch to take his kids to football - I know I would have. 1 steward per 25 supporters is more like a ratio of guards at The Maze, not a ratio for stewarding a largely elderly, passive attendance.

If the overall consensus was that even a limited crowd would be beneficial to the team spirit and performance then perhaps the club would gladly absorb the cost.

I think your repeated dismissals of the viability is a smokescreen - more to do with your opinion that it shouldn't be allowed, rather than it not being financially viable.
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Stan A. Einstein

Re: Fans could be back at games in England by Christmas

Postby Stan A. Einstein » November 20th, 2020, 6:28 pm

whoareya wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
whoareya wrote:What exactly are the additional financial implications of letting a restricted number of home season ticket holders into games that are already taking place?

If you mean the cost of stewarding, turnstiles etc, then just apply a minimal surcharge as many car dealerships are doing if you want your car serviced, to cover additional PPE etc.


This figure is a guesstimate. But I hope not a ridiculous one.

Firstly there is the cost of stewarding. I don't know but with Covid restriction One steward per 25 supporters would not seem unreasonable. 40 stewards for five hours at Saturday rates. £20 x 5 x 40. £4,000 just for starters. The company which employs those stewards will want to make a profit, will have their own expenses, will have to make NI contributions. At a very conservative estimate a further £2,000. Policing costs for outside the stadium. Public liability insurance and so on another £5,000. And having to build in sanitary stations etc. These costs are not known to me, in reality they may be higher or lower. Likewise there may be costs of which I have not detailed. Now a father taking two kids to a game for which they all have tickets might be a bit miffed at having to fork out another £36 as a 'minimal' surcharge don't you think?.


The 1000 limit would almost certainly rule out the family scenario you suggest and clubs don't pay anything for policing unless they attend inside the stadium, in this instance that wouldn't be needed. Even so, perhaps a dad would gladly pay a surcharch to take his kids to football - I know I would have. 1 steward per 25 supporters is more like a ratio of guards at The Maze, not a ratio for stewarding a largely elderly, passive attendance.

If the overall consensus was that even a limited crowd would be beneficial to the team spirit and performance then perhaps the club would gladly absorb the cost.

I think your repeated dismissals of the viability is a smokescreen - more to do with your opinion that it shouldn't be allowed, rather than it not being financially viable.


Not at all. A 'smokescreen' is a device to deflect attention. My view on not allowing the return of fans I is well known as are my reasons. Everyone is at liberty to agree or disagree with my views, why on earth would I want to deflect from my honestly held opinion.

As for your first limb of argument. Looking at our home record thus far this season it is difficult to see how a limited home crowd would improve results. And if the overall consensus is that it would the overall consensus would be wrong.

Could I suggest you follow my example and give reasons for your opinions I appreciate that you don't like my views but unless you try making reasoned argument and thinking before you post, swatting you is far too easy. :grin:
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whoareya

Re: Fans could be back at games in England by Christmas

Postby whoareya » November 20th, 2020, 7:00 pm

Stan A. Einstein wrote:
whoareya wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
whoareya wrote:What exactly are the additional financial implications of letting a restricted number of home season ticket holders into games that are already taking place?

If you mean the cost of stewarding, turnstiles etc, then just apply a minimal surcharge as many car dealerships are doing if you want your car serviced, to cover additional PPE etc.


This figure is a guesstimate. But I hope not a ridiculous one.

Firstly there is the cost of stewarding. I don't know but with Covid restriction One steward per 25 supporters would not seem unreasonable. 40 stewards for five hours at Saturday rates. £20 x 5 x 40. £4,000 just for starters. The company which employs those stewards will want to make a profit, will have their own expenses, will have to make NI contributions. At a very conservative estimate a further £2,000. Policing costs for outside the stadium. Public liability insurance and so on another £5,000. And having to build in sanitary stations etc. These costs are not known to me, in reality they may be higher or lower. Likewise there may be costs of which I have not detailed. Now a father taking two kids to a game for which they all have tickets might be a bit miffed at having to fork out another £36 as a 'minimal' surcharge don't you think?.


The 1000 limit would almost certainly rule out the family scenario you suggest and clubs don't pay anything for policing unless they attend inside the stadium, in this instance that wouldn't be needed. Even so, perhaps a dad would gladly pay a surcharch to take his kids to football - I know I would have. 1 steward per 25 supporters is more like a ratio of guards at The Maze, not a ratio for stewarding a largely elderly, passive attendance.

If the overall consensus was that even a limited crowd would be beneficial to the team spirit and performance then perhaps the club would gladly absorb the cost.

I think your repeated dismissals of the viability is a smokescreen - more to do with your opinion that it shouldn't be allowed, rather than it not being financially viable.


Not at all. A 'smokescreen' is a device to deflect attention. My view on not allowing the return of fans I is well known as are my reasons. Everyone is at liberty to agree or disagree with my views, why on earth would I want to deflect from my honestly held opinion.

As for your first limb of argument. Looking at our home record thus far this season it is difficult to see how a limited home crowd would improve results. And if the overall consensus is that it would the overall consensus would be wrong.

Could I suggest you follow my example and give reasons for your opinions I appreciate that you don't like my views but unless you try making reasoned argument and thinking before you post, swatting you is far too easy. :grin:


Nah, you've merely offered a different interpretation of the meaning of smokescreen and a rather flimsy counter to my opinion regarding performance, as if being top of the league is the only benchmark of performance and cannot be improved. All my other points are spot on and you have no credible counter, hence your predictable retreat to insults.
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