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Re: Swindon recall Twine

31 by Stan A. Einstein
phil crump wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
Percy plunkett wrote:Without Twine and Cooper,we wouldn’t be top of the League.White made a huge difference to the side.Without McCoulsky,we wouldn’t have beat Leeds on our first Cup run.Without Healey and Sheehan,we would have been relegated.To say loans are of no benefit to us is absurd.The problem I have with loans is Flynny signs too many,there were seven here this season,six on other occasions.There is a disruption caused by good ones being recalled and duff ones being sent back and more then being brought in to replace them.Far better to just have three and try to make sure that they will make an impact.Lewis and Webb have hardly played,there was Maloney and the other Cooper before them that were just squad fillers.I think we have a couple of Academy players who are being held back because of loan players clogging up the squad at their expense.
And without the loan system clubs higher up the pyramid would not be able to Hoover up so many players. Twine was not in Swindon's plans at the start of the season. Without the loan system Twine or a player of Twine' s calibre would or at least should have been playing for Newport County throughout the season and not be subject to the whim of Swindon f@cking Town.

My argument, which the more intelligent readers of this board are fully conversant with, is not that Twine is not an exceptional player but rather that without the insidious loan system Twine would not be leaving just as we go into the business end of the season.
Usual snide comments from the all knowing but my view is without the loan system players like Scott twine will be sat on their arses not kicking a ball apart from the odd development game.there are lots wrong with the loan system but it also has positive points
Go back 40 years. There were loans but nowhere near as we have today. We won promotion from Division 4 because we were able to sign the likes of Keith Oakes from Peterborough rather than 'loan' him. Which is what Would happen today. And without one or two of Oakes or Tynan or Moore or Aldridge or Gwyther I suspect Bradford would have been promoted not us.

The loan system has no benefits whatsoever for Newport County.

Re: Swindon recall Twine

32 by wattsville_boy
Why not tweak an imperfect system to try and improve it. Rather than allowing the loaner to recall the player, give the power to the loanee to send the player back if they are dissatisfied with the quality of the player loaned to them. And if the player loaned has less than a year of his contract left he can decide if he'd prefer to play regular football for the season at a side lower down the pyramid or play for the kids at his parent side...

Re: Swindon recall Twine

33 by Blackandamber
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
phil crump wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
Percy plunkett wrote:Without Twine and Cooper,we wouldn’t be top of the League.White made a huge difference to the side.Without McCoulsky,we wouldn’t have beat Leeds on our first Cup run.Without Healey and Sheehan,we would have been relegated.To say loans are of no benefit to us is absurd.The problem I have with loans is Flynny signs too many,there were seven here this season,six on other occasions.There is a disruption caused by good ones being recalled and duff ones being sent back and more then being brought in to replace them.Far better to just have three and try to make sure that they will make an impact.Lewis and Webb have hardly played,there was Maloney and the other Cooper before them that were just squad fillers.I think we have a couple of Academy players who are being held back because of loan players clogging up the squad at their expense.
And without the loan system clubs higher up the pyramid would not be able to Hoover up so many players. Twine was not in Swindon's plans at the start of the season. Without the loan system Twine or a player of Twine' s calibre would or at least should have been playing for Newport County throughout the season and not be subject to the whim of Swindon f@cking Town.

My argument, which the more intelligent readers of this board are fully conversant with, is not that Twine is not an exceptional player but rather that without the insidious loan system Twine would not be leaving just as we go into the business end of the season.
Usual snide comments from the all knowing but my view is without the loan system players like Scott twine will be sat on their arses not kicking a ball apart from the odd development game.there are lots wrong with the loan system but it also has positive points
Go back 40 years. There were loans but nowhere near as we have today. We won promotion from Division 4 because we were able to sign the likes of Keith Oakes from Peterborough rather than 'loan' him. Which is what Would happen today. And without one or two of Oakes or Tynan or Moore or Aldridge or Gwyther I suspect Bradford would have been promoted not us.

The loan system has no benefits whatsoever for Newport County.
And how much did that little lot cost us? Enough to put us out of business just a few years later.

Remember Karl Darlow. There's no way we could have signed him from Nottm Forest. Would we be where we are today without him?

Re: Swindon recall Twine

34 by County ranger
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
phil crump wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
Percy plunkett wrote:Without Twine and Cooper,we wouldn’t be top of the League.White made a huge difference to the side.Without McCoulsky,we wouldn’t have beat Leeds on our first Cup run.Without Healey and Sheehan,we would have been relegated.To say loans are of no benefit to us is absurd.The problem I have with loans is Flynny signs too many,there were seven here this season,six on other occasions.There is a disruption caused by good ones being recalled and duff ones being sent back and more then being brought in to replace them.Far better to just have three and try to make sure that they will make an impact.Lewis and Webb have hardly played,there was Maloney and the other Cooper before them that were just squad fillers.I think we have a couple of Academy players who are being held back because of loan players clogging up the squad at their expense.
And without the loan system clubs higher up the pyramid would not be able to Hoover up so many players. Twine was not in Swindon's plans at the start of the season. Without the loan system Twine or a player of Twine' s calibre would or at least should have been playing for Newport County throughout the season and not be subject to the whim of Swindon f@cking Town.

My argument, which the more intelligent readers of this board are fully conversant with, is not that Twine is not an exceptional player but rather that without the insidious loan system Twine would not be leaving just as we go into the business end of the season.
Usual snide comments from the all knowing but my view is without the loan system players like Scott twine will be sat on their arses not kicking a ball apart from the odd development game.there are lots wrong with the loan system but it also has positive points
Go back 40 years. There were loans but nowhere near as we have today. We won promotion from Division 4 because we were able to sign the likes of Keith Oakes from Peterborough rather than 'loan' him. Which is what Would happen today. And without one or two of Oakes or Tynan or Moore or Aldridge or Gwyther I suspect Bradford would have been promoted not us.

The loan system has no benefits whatsoever for Newport County.
Stan I believe Gwyther may have initially come on loan but in any event you are right about the situation 40 years ago but times change in our promotion season we had a squad of 14 maybe 15 max hence could afford signings on contracts - we could not have then like now afford 20 plus first teamers without the loan system.
I would prefer quality over quantity and a smaller squad of signed players - paid more and tied into longer contracts but that appears to be too high a risk for teams now - signing badly (remember Johnson / Waddle) and the need for bloated squads.
What frustrates me about the loan system is players who come here and don’t play.

Re: Swindon recall Twine

35 by Stan A. Einstein
Blackandamber wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
phil crump wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
Percy plunkett wrote:Without Twine and Cooper,we wouldn’t be top of the League.White made a huge difference to the side.Without McCoulsky,we wouldn’t have beat Leeds on our first Cup run.Without Healey and Sheehan,we would have been relegated.To say loans are of no benefit to us is absurd.The problem I have with loans is Flynny signs too many,there were seven here this season,six on other occasions.There is a disruption caused by good ones being recalled and duff ones being sent back and more then being brought in to replace them.Far better to just have three and try to make sure that they will make an impact.Lewis and Webb have hardly played,there was Maloney and the other Cooper before them that were just squad fillers.I think we have a couple of Academy players who are being held back because of loan players clogging up the squad at their expense.
And without the loan system clubs higher up the pyramid would not be able to Hoover up so many players. Twine was not in Swindon's plans at the start of the season. Without the loan system Twine or a player of Twine' s calibre would or at least should have been playing for Newport County throughout the season and not be subject to the whim of Swindon f@cking Town.

My argument, which the more intelligent readers of this board are fully conversant with, is not that Twine is not an exceptional player but rather that without the insidious loan system Twine would not be leaving just as we go into the business end of the season.
Usual snide comments from the all knowing but my view is without the loan system players like Scott twine will be sat on their arses not kicking a ball apart from the odd development game.there are lots wrong with the loan system but it also has positive points
Go back 40 years. There were loans but nowhere near as we have today. We won promotion from Division 4 because we were able to sign the likes of Keith Oakes from Peterborough rather than 'loan' him. Which is what Would happen today. And without one or two of Oakes or Tynan or Moore or Aldridge or Gwyther I suspect Bradford would have been promoted not us.

The loan system has no benefits whatsoever for Newport County.
And how much did that little lot cost us? Enough to put us out of business just a few years later.

Remember Karl Darlow. There's no way we could have signed him from Nottm Forest. Would we be where we are today without him?
Let me see. My memory is not perfect but.

Tynan £25,000, Oakes £16,000. Moore £12,000 Gwyther £40,000 and Aldridge £3,000.

Less than £100,000. And all signed a decade or more before we went bust.

Re: Swindon recall Twine

36 by County-at-the-races
Stan A. Einstein wrote:The loan system has no benefits whatsoever for Newport County.
It does and it doesn't.
It does because it brings other lesser players up to the level the loan player has come from.
It does because a successful side brings in interest and support.
It doesn't because when that player becomes the key to a successful side, then the parent club decides he is now ready to step up to his own parent team.
The problem begins when you near enough build a team of loan players, then when you have done well and they get dragged back basically the game is up.

On the realism side, there is no way we can compete with the likes of Nailsworth who have found a way around the regs, or for that matter Salford, so the loan system helps us a bit to compete.

Re: Swindon recall Twine

37 by County-at-the-races
Stan A. Einstein wrote: Let me see. My memory is not perfect but.
Tynan £25,000, Oakes £16,000. Moore £12,000 Gwyther £40,000 and Aldridge £3,000.
Less than £100,000. And all signed a decade or more before we went bust.
In todays age not a lot, back then it was pushing the boat out.
Remind what we went bust over in relation to that £100k

We've probably got players being paid £100k in wages

Re: Swindon recall Twine

38 by Stan A. Einstein
County-at-the-races wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:The loan system has no benefits whatsoever for Newport County.
It does and it doesn't.
It does because it brings other lesser players up to the level the loan player has come from.
It does because a successful side brings in interest and support.
It doesn't because when that player becomes the key to a successful side, then the parent club decides he is now ready to step up to his own parent team.
The problem begins when you near enough build a team of loan players, then when you have done well and they get dragged back basically the game is up.

On the realism side, there is no way we can compete with the likes of Nailsworth who have found a way around the regs, or for that matter Salford, so the loan system helps us a bit to compete.
Let me deal with your two 'does'

First point. How many loan signings have not worked out? Do you think that they drag down the 'our' lesser players.

Secondly all clubs in League 2 use thye loan system. Somebody has to be top, somebody has to be bottom. Did you think in our seasons of struggle that the loan system was responsible?

As for FGR and Salford. If they have more money they get first pick of loanees in any event.

This is not a point of principle, I'm open to being convinced but I can't see one good point about the loan system. That you might get some good loans doesn't show the system has a benefit for clubs such as County.

Re: Swindon recall Twine

40 by County-at-the-races
Stan A. Einstein wrote: First point. How many loan signings have not worked out? Do you think that they drag down the 'our' lesser players.
Secondly all clubs in League 2 use thye loan system. Somebody has to be top, somebody has to be bottom. Did you think in our seasons of struggle that the loan system was responsible?
As for FGR and Salford. If they have more money they get first pick of loanees in any event.
.
No system is perfect, you just have to make the best of what you can.
P1. It works for us too. If a player is lazy, not up to it or brings your system down then the option is to thank the parent club but say thanks, it ain't working, back to you
P2. How do you measure that other than scientifically? Different managers with different ways. Flynn inherited an absolute shite situation and with the same players changed something that worked. So was it the managers or the players?

I'm against mass loanees because if they gain you promotion then you are going to be royally screwed the following season, when your team is dismantled, but as a filler with 2 or 3 to help the team it is great.
Like actually signings we have had really good players and some right jokers who have cost us big time.
Both systems have positives and negatives

Re: Swindon recall Twine

43 by Percy plunkett
The loan system suits us,just look at the number of successful loans.Flynny though,does over do it.He signed Lewis,even though we had two RB’s,he signed Webb,even though we had signed Longe King and Cooper,we already had Howkins.He does like strength in numbers or allowing for failures it seems.Cooper or Webb,two promising,untried players with Championship clubs,he thinks,sign both to make sure we are not left short in case we sign the wrong one.

Re: Swindon recall Twine

44 by DeePeeNCAFC
I agree that not all loanees have, so far, been successful this season but I think where we all agree we have done things right is by strengthening the squad, with players in reserve for each position. This has reaped benefits with so many injury time winners this season - strength in depth so we can keep going until the 97th minute.
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