Shamina Begum

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Stan A. Einstein

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Re: Shamina Begum

Postby Stan A. Einstein » February 21st, 2019, 7:08 pm

pembsexile wrote:Brendan, I'm certainly not foolish enough to argue a point of law with you. I have no doubt that what you say from a legal viewpoint is correct.

However, that does not make it morally correct. You previously mentioned the Germans and the Second World War. The problem that I have with the law is this. It is there to safeguard people and property so that society can function in the best manner. Did the law protect the people of this country in WW2?

You say that you probably know the Barristers who may go on to represent Ms Begam. Picture this scenario. They win their case and she is allowed into the country. By the way, I am referring to her but it could be any one of the ISIS scum who may get back into the country. One of them goes on to commit a terrorist outrage in this country at some stage in the future. What would the Barristers say, ' not my fault Gov, I was just doing my job' perhaps.

We have one chance to stop these people getting in to the country. I completely accept that my view is not a good one in law. That does not make it wrong. I could not live with myself were I to be one of those Barristers. God forbid it happens, I hope they can live with their concience. My family, my values, my country are more important to me than protecting the rights of people who would laugh at you for trying to protect them in court.



Brendan, sometimes the law is not what you think it is. It will offer me and my family no protection at all from these scum. How do I deal with that when I tell my offspring to behave themselves and do not break the law? The annoying thing is that the Human Rights Brigade will walk all over me and my values in an attempt to protect them. It stinks, it is abhorrent and you know it Brendan.


Hi Mike,

But you still have to answer the question, what would you do if she returns? Why should Bangladesh or Holland take a UK problem?
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Re: Shamina Begum

Postby pembsexile » February 21st, 2019, 7:44 pm

Hi Brendan,

Bangladesh have apparently said that there is 'no question' of her returning there even though she has Bangladeshi citizenship as her mother was born there.

It is obvious that you are taking the view from a point of law, but I am not as I have explained. To pinch a well worn phrase, in this particular instance, the law is an ass. I have no doubt that the law and the Human Rights Brigade will win. Hundreds may die as a result but never mind eh, the law prevailed. Her rights are more important than the lives of potentially hundreds of people. It stinks.

What should I do if she returned you ask. Well I would do this. I would make a compulsory purchase order on the house next to Jeremy Corbyn. He publicly supports her right to return. She can live there. Or would he then come up with Nimby syndrome?
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Stan A. Einstein

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Re: Shamina Begum

Postby Stan A. Einstein » February 21st, 2019, 9:21 pm

pembsexile wrote:Hi Brendan,

Bangladesh have apparently said that there is 'no question' of her returning there even though she has Bangladeshi citizenship as her mother was born there.

It is obvious that you are taking the view from a point of law, but I am not as I have explained. To pinch a well worn phrase, in this particular instance, the law is an ass. I have no doubt that the law and the Human Rights Brigade will win. Hundreds may die as a result but never mind eh, the law prevailed. Her rights are more important than the lives of potentially hundreds of people. It stinks.

What should I do if she returned you ask. Well I would do this. I would make a compulsory purchase order on the house next to Jeremy Corbyn. He publicly supports her right to return. She can live there. Or would he then come up with Nimby syndrome?


Leaving aside nimbyism the question remains. What is it you would do if she returns and nobody else will take her?

Moving on, I know she comes across as utterly obnoxious but I defended so many people of her age. They for the most part are stupid frightened kids.

Now I am not saying she isn't responsible for her actions or that there shouldn't be a sanction. However it does seem to me that the Home Secretary is jumping on a populist bandwagon.
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Cornish Exile

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Re: Shamina Begum

Postby Cornish Exile » February 21st, 2019, 9:43 pm

pembsexile wrote:Hi Brendan,

Bangladesh have apparently said that there is 'no question' of her returning there even though she has Bangladeshi citizenship as her mother was born there.

It is obvious that you are taking the view from a point of law, but I am not as I have explained. To pinch a well worn phrase, in this particular instance, the law is an ass. I have no doubt that the law and the Human Rights Brigade will win. Hundreds may die as a result but never mind eh, the law prevailed. Her rights are more important than the lives of potentially hundreds of people. It stinks.

What should I do if she returned you ask. Well I would do this. I would make a compulsory purchase order on the house next to Jeremy Corbyn. He publicly supports her right to return. She can live there. Or would he then come up with Nimby syndrome?


I would be interested to know on what evidence you base your assertion that "hundreds may die" if this British born teenager and her baby is allowed to return home.

I agree with Stan that Javid's knee jerk reaction is nothing more than a bit of political grandstanding, part of his leadership ambitions.
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Re: Shamina Begum

Postby pembsexile » February 21st, 2019, 9:48 pm

Cornish Exile wrote:
pembsexile wrote:Hi Brendan,

Bangladesh have apparently said that there is 'no question' of her returning there even though she has Bangladeshi citizenship as her mother was born there.

It is obvious that you are taking the view from a point of law, but I am not as I have explained. To pinch a well worn phrase, in this particular instance, the law is an ass. I have no doubt that the law and the Human Rights Brigade will win. Hundreds may die as a result but never mind eh, the law prevailed. Her rights are more important than the lives of potentially hundreds of people. It stinks.

What should I do if she returned you ask. Well I would do this. I would make a compulsory purchase order on the house next to Jeremy Corbyn. He publicly supports her right to return. She can live there. Or would he then come up with Nimby syndrome?


I would be interested to know on what evidence you base your assertion that "hundreds may die" if this British born teenager and her baby is allowed to return home.

I agree with Stan that Javid's knee jerk reaction is nothing more than a bit of political grandstanding, part of his leadership ambitions.


If you read my previous posts I mentioned that whilst we were talking about her, it could be any one of the ISIS brothers and sisters that my point could refer to. Given the scale of the Manchester and tube attacks you surely are not questioning the fact that their action may cause hundreds to die?
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Re: Shamina Begum

Postby pembsexile » February 21st, 2019, 9:56 pm

Stan A. Einstein wrote:
pembsexile wrote:Hi Brendan,

Bangladesh have apparently said that there is 'no question' of her returning there even though she has Bangladeshi citizenship as her mother was born there.

It is obvious that you are taking the view from a point of law, but I am not as I have explained. To pinch a well worn phrase, in this particular instance, the law is an ass. I have no doubt that the law and the Human Rights Brigade will win. Hundreds may die as a result but never mind eh, the law prevailed. Her rights are more important than the lives of potentially hundreds of people. It stinks.

What should I do if she returned you ask. Well I would do this. I would make a compulsory purchase order on the house next to Jeremy Corbyn. He publicly supports her right to return. She can live there. Or would he then come up with Nimby syndrome?


Leaving aside nimbyism the question remains. What is it you would do if she returns and nobody else will take her?

Moving on, I know she comes across as utterly obnoxious but I defended so many people of her age. They for the most part are stupid frightened kids.

Now I am not saying she isn't responsible for her actions or that there shouldn't be a sanction. However it does seem to me that the Home Secretary is jumping on a populist bandwagon.


I have absolutely no idea what I would do because I don't know the law well enough. That is what lawyers are for. I have stated a few times now that you are coming from a point of law and I am not. As I said (again) I expect that the Human Rights lawyers will win unfortunately. What I will say is that I would expect that there are procedures are in place for this scenario.

You have made an assumption that she will come here. We don't know that. What procedures are in place to prevent her getting on these shores in the first place? It is not up to me to decide what to do with her. That is for other people. I don't get paid enough money to make a decision like that thank goodness.
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Re: Shamina Begum

Postby Cornish Exile » February 21st, 2019, 10:04 pm

pembsexile wrote:
Cornish Exile wrote:
pembsexile wrote:Hi Brendan,

Bangladesh have apparently said that there is 'no question' of her returning there even though she has Bangladeshi citizenship as her mother was born there.

It is obvious that you are taking the view from a point of law, but I am not as I have explained. To pinch a well worn phrase, in this particular instance, the law is an ass. I have no doubt that the law and the Human Rights Brigade will win. Hundreds may die as a result but never mind eh, the law prevailed. Her rights are more important than the lives of potentially hundreds of people. It stinks.

What should I do if she returned you ask. Well I would do this. I would make a compulsory purchase order on the house next to Jeremy Corbyn. He publicly supports her right to return. She can live there. Or would he then come up with Nimby syndrome?


I would be interested to know on what evidence you base your assertion that "hundreds may die" if this British born teenager and her baby is allowed to return home.

I agree with Stan that Javid's knee jerk reaction is nothing more than a bit of political grandstanding, part of his leadership ambitions.


If you read my previous posts I mentioned that whilst we were talking about her, it could be any one of the ISIS brothers and sisters that my point could refer to. Given the scale of the Manchester and tube attacks you surely are not questioning the fact that their action may cause hundreds to die?



That seems to be an answer to a completely different question.
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Re: Shamina Begum

Postby pembsexile » February 22nd, 2019, 7:25 am

Stan A. Einstein wrote:Watching in my Nottingham hotel room the BBC this morning, the BBC journalist said and it was unchallenged. She (Begum) had supported the Manchester bomb attack as retaliation for Allied bombing. Ms Begum said no such thing. What she actually said was that whilst she was against the Manchester bomb she thought it should not be forgotten that there had been bombing carried out by the West which was equally wrong.

Now you can disagree with her view but it seems to me that it is totally wrong condemn her for what she has not said. And thanks to the poor slipshod reporting of the BBC this is likely to happen.

My view is that she is a stupid, frightened little girl. Get her home, get her deradicalized, and if necessary put her on trial. But to satisfy the mob, which Javid is doing is playing base politics.

As always I am interested in the views of others.


I see the BBC has repeated this story on their website this morning. She said she was shocked by the Manchester bombing but that it was in retaliation. Her own family are 'appalled by her vile comments' and that like the rest of the country, feel they do not represent British values. Hm, yes indeed.
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Re: Shamina Begum

Postby Stan A. Einstein » February 22nd, 2019, 12:49 pm

pembsexile wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:Watching in my Nottingham hotel room the BBC this morning, the BBC journalist said and it was unchallenged. She (Begum) had supported the Manchester bomb attack as retaliation for Allied bombing. Ms Begum said no such thing. What she actually said was that whilst she was against the Manchester bomb she thought it should not be forgotten that there had been bombing carried out by the West which was equally wrong.

Now you can disagree with her view but it seems to me that it is totally wrong condemn her for what she has not said. And thanks to the poor slipshod reporting of the BBC this is likely to happen.

My view is that she is a stupid, frightened little girl. Get her home, get her deradicalized, and if necessary put her on trial. But to satisfy the mob, which Javid is doing is playing base politics.

As always I am interested in the views of others.


I see the BBC has repeated this story on their website this morning. She said she was shocked by the Manchester bombing but that it was in retaliation. Her own family are 'appalled by her vile comments' and that like the rest of the country, feel they do not represent British values. Hm, yes indeed.


Firstly she didn't say she supported, indeed she said the Manchester bombing was wrong.
I agree that her comments are vile. I am always wary of 'British values'. Tends to imply that the British have higher and better values than other people. Admittedly I have only been to 26 countries and four of the six inhabited continents but I don't find the British better or worse than anyone else.
But the fact remains. She is British. Britain raised her. She is Britain's problem. Funnily enough I watched question time last night. The last contribution from the audience was spot on. Sajid Javid is being a populist. He knows he is behaving unlawfully. He knows the courts will overturn his decision. He will then blame the courts.
Values, British or otherwise, dictate that we do the right thing even when it's unpopular. The Secretary of State for the Home Department, is in my view a total shit.
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Re: Shamina Begum

Postby penycwm county » February 22nd, 2019, 2:41 pm

More than 400 British Isis jihadis have already returned to UK, it does make me wonder why we are concerned about this one girl returning? rightly or wrongly we need to have consistency and not respond to the bias of the British media
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Re: Shamina Begum

Postby pembsexile » February 22nd, 2019, 6:47 pm

Stan A. Einstein wrote:
pembsexile wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:Watching in my Nottingham hotel room the BBC this morning, the BBC journalist said and it was unchallenged. She (Begum) had supported the Manchester bomb attack as retaliation for Allied bombing. Ms Begum said no such thing. What she actually said was that whilst she was against the Manchester bomb she thought it should not be forgotten that there had been bombing carried out by the West which was equally wrong.

Now you can disagree with her view but it seems to me that it is totally wrong condemn her for what she has not said. And thanks to the poor slipshod reporting of the BBC this is likely to happen.

My view is that she is a stupid, frightened little girl. Get her home, get her deradicalized, and if necessary put her on trial. But to satisfy the mob, which Javid is doing is playing base politics.

As always I am interested in the views of others.


I see the BBC has repeated this story on their website this morning. She said she was shocked by the Manchester bombing but that it was in retaliation. Her own family are 'appalled by her vile comments' and that like the rest of the country, feel they do not represent British values. Hm, yes indeed.


Firstly she didn't say she supported, indeed she said the Manchester bombing was wrong.
I agree that her comments are vile. I am always wary of 'British values'. Tends to imply that the British have higher and better values than other people. Admittedly I have only been to 26 countries and four of the six inhabited continents but I don't find the British better or worse than anyone else.
But the fact remains. She is British. Britain raised her. She is Britain's problem. Funnily enough I watched question time last night. The last contribution from the audience was spot on. Sajid Javid is being a populist. He knows he is behaving unlawfully. He knows the courts will overturn his decision. He will then blame the courts.
Values, British or otherwise, dictate that we do the right thing even when it's unpopular. The Secretary of State for the Home Department, is in my view a total shit.


Brendan, I didn't say she said she supported, i said the BBC said she was shocked about the Manchester bombing. She did talk about retaliation.

Her family made the comments about British values not me. I merely reported it. There is a difference.

You make a lot of fuss on here about your words being twisted. You get annoyed when people comment on something you did not say. I know how you feel.

A good comment i have heard came for Geoffrey Robinson who is an ex UN judge I think. (Can't find the link now). He said it was up to a judge to decide, not a politician.
Last edited by pembsexile on February 23rd, 2019, 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shamina Begum

Postby Corpaboy » February 22nd, 2019, 11:13 pm

If we let her return , then we will open the floodgates for any British born ISIS "fighter" to return to the country when things have fucked up for them .
Their age , and sex , shouldn't come into it .
Let her rot I say .
Let "her people" look after her .
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Re: Shamina Begum

Postby Corpaboy » February 22nd, 2019, 11:18 pm

Saying that . If she leaves it 30 years , she'll probably end up taking a place in Parliament a la Sinn Fein ....
But then that's a whole new argument .... isn't it ??? :shock:
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Re: Shamina Begum

Postby penycwm county » February 23rd, 2019, 10:43 am

Corpaboy wrote:If we let her return , then we will open the floodgates for any British born ISIS "fighter" to return to the country when things have fucked up for them .
Their age , and sex , shouldn't come into it .
Let her rot I say .
Let "her people" look after her .

Too late, as I said earlier over 400 have already returned with no media cover.
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Re: Shamina Begum

Postby mad norm » February 23rd, 2019, 12:55 pm

One thing for sure, plenty of publicity for terrorists whilst this drags on
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