rncfc wrote:I don't really care about Corbyn's stance on Brexit to be honest; that doesn't change my view on the fact that we need someone of his ilk to come in and repair the social damage that the Conservatives have created.

Having discussed the Brexit topic at length with plenty of people, including senior figures at the IoEA, I'm not convinced that the medium to long term effects will be of any great magnitude. There will obviously be some short term issues that the country has to contend with.

It's his stance on Brexit that is keeping the Conservatives in power! The first past the post system makes it incredibly hard for someone like him to get in power without his constant dithering and u-turns on a second referendum. I'm glad you said someone of his ilk because ideology alone isn't enough to make someone a prime minister, his performances in parliament and in front of the media are utterly laughable.

Marky wrote:

rncfc wrote:I don't really care about Corbyn's stance on Brexit to be honest; that doesn't change my view on the fact that we need someone of his ilk to come in and repair the social damage that the Conservatives have created.

Having discussed the Brexit topic at length with plenty of people, including senior figures at the IoEA, I'm not convinced that the medium to long term effects will be of any great magnitude. There will obviously be some short term issues that the country has to contend with.

It's his stance on Brexit that is keeping the Conservatives in power! The first past the post system makes it incredibly hard for someone like him to get in power without his constant dithering and u-turns on a second referendum. I'm glad you said someone of his ilk because ideology alone isn't enough to make someone a prime minister, his performances in parliament and in front of the media are utterly laughable.

Wouldn't disagree with that; far too principled to seize the initiative in my opinion.

If Jeremy Corbyn walked on water The Sun, The Daily Mail and the BBC would report that Jeremy Corbyn couldn't swim.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:If Jeremy Corbyn walked on water The Sun, The Daily Mail and the BBC would report that Jeremy Corbyn couldn't swim.

For sure! I wouldn't be against him having a go myself; he has his weaknesses but he is a good guy - quite patently.

I could not imagine a Labour Govt at the moment.

How could that bunch of Muppets be in control? I mean, they aren't even an opposition at the moment. They should be flying high with this chaos but they keep getting found out for the cheats, liars and ignorant that they are.

They have been saying for over two years that they have a Brexit plan and now, in these dire times when the Govt reach out for them, they get found out with absolutely nothing.

Willthiswork wrote:I could not imagine a Labour Govt at the moment.

How could that bunch of Muppets be in control? I mean, they aren't even an opposition at the moment. They should be flying high with this chaos but they keep getting found out for the cheats, liars and ignorant that they are.

They have been saying for over two years that they have a Brexit plan and now, in these dire times when the Govt reach out for them, they get found out with absolutely nothing.

The Labour plan is to re-negotiate a customs union and single market . To do this they intend to force a general election. Failing that all options including a second referendum remain on the table.You may disagree with that but to say they don't have a coherent plan is simply not true.

When it comes to Muppets the present Tory regime, aided and abetted by the DUP are without doubt the most incompetent Government in the UK post World War Two.

Can't argue with your second point but your first has been rejected time and time again by the EU. Therefore it is a Baldrick type of plan...

Willthiswork wrote:Can't argue with your second point but your first has been rejected time and time again by the EU. Therefore it is a Baldrick type of plan...

You are utterly wrong.

The EU will not renegotiate whilst Theresa May's red lines of no to the customs union and no to the single market are still in place. If the UK wants both, known now as Norway Plus then the EU will reopen negotiations.

The problem with the 2016 referendum is that the majority of people who voted don't know what a customs union or a single market is, let alone the difference between them. Including it seems yourself.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

Willthiswork wrote:Can't argue with your second point but your first has been rejected time and time again by the EU. Therefore it is a Baldrick type of plan...

You are utterly wrong.

The EU will not renegotiate whilst Theresa May's red lines of no to the customs union and no to the single market are still in place. If the UK wants both, known now as Norway Plus then the EU will reopen negotiations.

The problem with the 2016 referendum is that the majority of people who voted don't know what a customs union or a single market is, let alone the difference between them. Including it seems yourself.

Try and twist it your way all you want but Labour have spoken to the EU about their plans and were given the same treatment as May was.

Glad you know the understanding of the majority of those who bothered to vote as you really seem to know little else.

Willthiswork wrote:

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

Willthiswork wrote:Can't argue with your second point but your first has been rejected time and time again by the EU. Therefore it is a Baldrick type of plan...

You are utterly wrong.

The EU will not renegotiate whilst Theresa May's red lines of no to the customs union and no to the single market are still in place. If the UK wants both, known now as Norway Plus then the EU will reopen negotiations.

The problem with the 2016 referendum is that the majority of people who voted don't know what a customs union or a single market is, let alone the difference between them. Including it seems yourself.

Try and twist it your way all you want but Labour have spoken to the EU about their plans and were given the same treatment as May was.

Glad you know the understanding of the majority of those who bothered to vote as you really seem to know little else.

I'm sorry that this offends you but you simply don't have a clue what you are talking about.

It is possible to make a coherent case for the UK leaving the EU, it is possible to make a coherent case for the UK to remain. Your lack of knowledge shows that you are unable to do either.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:
It is possible to make a coherent case for the UK leaving the EU, it is possible to make a coherent case for the UK to remain. Your lack of knowledge shows that you are unable to do either.

Eh?

I democratically voted. I expected my vote to be honoured.

If it was stay I would have accepted it.

There doesn't seem to be a coherent case to stay or go at the moment as those who should be doing their jobs are having a 2 week holiday.

Where have the EU said that they would accept a Labour deal?

Willthiswork wrote:

Stan A. Einstein wrote:
It is possible to make a coherent case for the UK leaving the EU, it is possible to make a coherent case for the UK to remain. Your lack of knowledge shows that you are unable to do either.

Eh?

I democratically voted. I expected my vote to be honoured.

If it was stay I would have accepted it.

There doesn't seem to be a coherent case to stay or go at the moment as those who should be doing their jobs are having a 2 week holiday.

Where have the EU said that they would accept a Labour deal?

It has been said many times. What the EU will not do is break their own rules to facilitate the UK.

You had your vote. As you were entitled to. Now can you explain the customs union and what it means? Turkey is not a member of the EU but is in the customs union. Norway is not in the EU but is in the customs union and the single market. Which version of Brexit did you vote for. To leave the single market but remain in the customs union, to remain in the single market and leave customs union, the leave both or to remain in both?

And how do you know which of the six versions of Brexit everyone who voted was in favour of, voted for?

The six versions of Brexit being:

May's deal.

Remain in customs union and single market.

Remain in customs union only.

Remain in single market only.

Canada style free trade agreement.

WTO rules.

Where?

Willthiswork wrote:Where?

It has been said repeatedly. The only reason for no renegotiation now is that the UK, as they are quite entitled to do, have said that they will not be part of the Customs Union or Single Market. My own view is that that is a huge mistake but that is a coherent position.

Now which of the six versions of Brexit do you favour? And how do you know that everyone who voted for Brexit agrees with you?

By the way. Technically a referendum is not a democratic decision. It is a equality decision. A democratic system is where the populace elect those who govern and have the power to remove the government. What the populace do not have is the right to govern.

Where?