Something nobody has been able to answer.

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Stan A. Einstein

Something nobody has been able to answer.

Postby Stan A. Einstein » June 4th, 2020, 12:30 am

And if anyone can help with this I would be grateful.

I was listening to a radio programme this evening and once again in talking of the economic affect of the pandemic it was clearly stated that every single world economy was in massive debt as a consequence.

Okay here's the question. If everyone is in debt who the f@ck do we all owe the money to?
Last edited by Stan A. Einstein on June 4th, 2020, 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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pembsexile

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Re: Something nobody has been able to answer.

Postby pembsexile » June 4th, 2020, 4:59 am

Morning Brendan. I have wondered the very same thing myself. I won’t pretend I have the answer, but....

Where does the world economy get all these pounds and dollars from. The Banks seem to be issuing this loan to governments around the world. The only thing I can think of is that this is an issue of credit. The money is underwritten. Surely the most ‘creditable’ agency is a government. They are probably the most able of all the agencies to repay the loans. That is why they get the money.

I think it is fair to say that if the governments didn’t spend this money fighting the virus, then in so called civil society, society itself may even collapse. That cannot be allowed to happen. That is why governments are spending this money now. Our grandchildren will be repaying this loan for decades.

One thing we can be sure of. Someone will be making a profit out of this. The Banks obviously. Their power will grow even greater. I don’t like the idea of that.
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rncfc

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Re: Something nobody has been able to answer.

Postby rncfc » June 4th, 2020, 6:22 pm

The answer is, I believe, to ourselves and our heirs.

Governments issue debt, this is then hoovered up by banks, pension schemes, large institutions and to a lesser extent the retail market.

The government owes interest on this debt which could well be dated in excess of 40 years.

I don't know why we don't issue 200 year debt, with a nominal rate of interest, thus enabling us to send out the equivalent of helicopter money to everyone until it's actually safe to recommence normal life.

Of course, that would involve some big companies going pop, and some vested interests becoming insolvent.

Same as ever with the Tories: pounds > people
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DeePeeNCAFC

Re: Something nobody has been able to answer.

Postby DeePeeNCAFC » June 4th, 2020, 6:50 pm

Bonds and shareholders I expect Stan. For those countries with a triple A credit ratings, borrowing opportunities will be plentiful and interest rates low. For those countries like the UK, downgraded from AAA to A- or something like that, we'll have to sell off our assets as collateral against any loans, I strongly suspect the argument towards privatising the NHS (to ensure future protection against pandemics will likely be the lame excuse), plus we'll probably sell if most of London also.

I expect to see HRH The Queen personally giving guided tours of BuckPal, breeding her corgies with Russian hounds to make ends meet, Prince Phillip forced to work as an Uber driver, and Prince Andrew will be sold off to be used as an ornamental door-stop.
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Jack - Admin

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Re: Something nobody has been able to answer.

Postby Jack - Admin » June 5th, 2020, 1:41 am

pembsexile wrote:Morning Brendan. I have wondered the very same thing myself. I won’t pretend I have the answer, but....

Where does the world economy get all these pounds and dollars from. The Banks seem to be issuing this loan to governments around the world. The only thing I can think of is that this is an issue of credit. The money is underwritten. Surely the most ‘creditable’ agency is a government. They are probably the most able of all the agencies to repay the loans. That is why they get the money.

I think it is fair to say that if the governments didn’t spend this money fighting the virus, then in so called civil society, society itself may even collapse. That cannot be allowed to happen. That is why governments are spending this money now. Our grandchildren will be repaying this loan for decades.

One thing we can be sure of. Someone will be making a profit out of this. The Banks obviously. Their power will grow even greater. I don’t like the idea of that.


For the most part, since most economies and federal reserves aren't tethered to a finite commodity such as gold most can simply print and mint new money in a game they call: quantitative easing.

900 odd billion planned to rectify this potential recession...

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mar ... llion.html
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UPTHEPORT

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Re: Something nobody has been able to answer.

Postby UPTHEPORT » June 5th, 2020, 6:51 am

Isn't it true we have only just paid our loan for the first World War in past few years that really is frightened stuff and what a real waste of time and lives that War was and without doubt caused the second World War
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rncfc

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Re: Something nobody has been able to answer.

Postby rncfc » June 5th, 2020, 8:43 am

My understanding is that QE can take different forms. The problem with just printing bank notes and handing them out is that inflation becomes a big problem. I imagine it will take the form of gilts which will be hoovered up by big banks, pension schemes, etc, and will serve to boost the balance sheets of big business whilst everyone else fights for the scraps (see 2009 - 2011).
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kevbifs

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Re: Something nobody has been able to answer.

Postby kevbifs » June 11th, 2020, 5:56 pm

Why don't we all (world wide) devalue goods and then we will more have more to spend?
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DeePeeNCAFC

Re: Something nobody has been able to answer.

Postby DeePeeNCAFC » June 11th, 2020, 6:28 pm

kevbifs wrote:Why don't we all (world wide) devalue goods and then we will more have more to spend?


Yep, that'll work. If it takes a man or woman (earning £10 an hour) an hour to make 100 widgets which are sold for 20p each, and we then devalue the price of widgets to, say, 10p each then the worker's wage must also fall.

What we need is a traditional industry that the Brits excel at and are world leaders so we can make £ like the Far East do from making mass-produced cheap technology. Come to think of it, what can the British do better than anyone else nowadays?
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neilcork68

Re: Something nobody has been able to answer.

Postby neilcork68 » September 7th, 2020, 9:55 pm

Its the same as that Asteroid they have been talking about .

I was reading that there is enough minerals, metals , precious metals etc on it to make every human being a billionaire.
That would be the worst thing to happen as it will be the end of life as we know it.
We will all starve because everyone will be a billionaire so no one will go to work to produce food, farmers wont plough the fields, fisherman wont fish ...you get the picture...
Every person on the planet will want to have their own reality tv programme showing people around their bank vaults and showing their wealth ..
Jeff Bezos will still be showing off because he will have $400billion where us paupers will only have $1billion and my bank account will still be in the red after the wife goes on a shopping spree :lol:
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Stan A. Einstein

Re: Something nobody has been able to answer.

Postby Stan A. Einstein » September 10th, 2020, 10:35 am

neilcork68 wrote:Its the same as that Asteroid they have been talking about .

I was reading that there is enough minerals, metals , precious metals etc on it to make every human being a billionaire.
That would be the worst thing to happen as it will be the end of life as we know it.
We will all starve because everyone will be a billionaire so no one will go to work to produce food, farmers wont plough the fields, fisherman wont fish ...you get the picture...
Every person on the planet will want to have their own reality tv programme showing people around their bank vaults and showing their wealth ..
Jeff Bezos will still be showing off because he will have $400billion where us paupers will only have $1billion and my bank account will still be in the red after the wife goes on a shopping spree :lol:


Here's where I have a problem. Where machines, including computers and their algorithms reduce the need for people it seems to me that rather than make people unemployed, would it not be better to employ the same number of people but for less hours?

For me if you look at many societies they have existed on a few elites and an awful lot of slaves, sometimes literally. This to me is obscene. Using machines to give us all far more leisure time strikes me as enlightened.
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jonescmj1

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Re: Something nobody has been able to answer.

Postby jonescmj1 » September 11th, 2020, 9:09 pm

rncfc wrote:The answer is, I believe, to ourselves and our heirs.

Governments issue debt, this is then hoovered up by banks, pension schemes, large institutions and to a lesser extent the retail market.

The government owes interest on this debt which could well be dated in excess of 40 years.

I don't know why we don't issue 200 year debt, with a nominal rate of interest, thus enabling us to send out the equivalent of helicopter money to everyone until it's actually safe to recommence normal life.

Of course, that would involve some big companies going pop, and some vested interests becoming insolvent.

Same as ever with the Tories: pounds > people


You are correct! Government issues bonds of varying degrees of maturity and banks and other financial institutions buy them as they are low risk, being government issued.
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jonescmj1

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Re: Something nobody has been able to answer.

Postby jonescmj1 » September 11th, 2020, 9:12 pm

Stan A. Einstein wrote:
neilcork68 wrote:Its the same as that Asteroid they have been talking about .

I was reading that there is enough minerals, metals , precious metals etc on it to make every human being a billionaire.
That would be the worst thing to happen as it will be the end of life as we know it.
We will all starve because everyone will be a billionaire so no one will go to work to produce food, farmers wont plough the fields, fisherman wont fish ...you get the picture...
Every person on the planet will want to have their own reality tv programme showing people around their bank vaults and showing their wealth ..
Jeff Bezos will still be showing off because he will have $400billion where us paupers will only have $1billion and my bank account will still be in the red after the wife goes on a shopping spree :lol:


Here's where I have a problem. Where machines, including computers and their algorithms reduce the need for people it seems to me that rather than make people unemployed, would it not be better to employ the same number of people but for less hours?

For me if you look at many societies they have existed on a few elites and an awful lot of slaves, sometimes literally. This to me is obscene. Using machines to give us all far more leisure time strikes me as enlightened.


Our company, the idea of which I am proposing to the sports collectives of Newport, already does this, 4 day week, paid lunch breaks and 20% above the 'Award' rate.
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jonescmj1

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Re: Something nobody has been able to answer.

Postby jonescmj1 » September 27th, 2020, 12:03 pm

Stan A. Einstein wrote:
neilcork68 wrote:Its the same as that Asteroid they have been talking about .

I was reading that there is enough minerals, metals , precious metals etc on it to make every human being a billionaire.
That would be the worst thing to happen as it will be the end of life as we know it.
We will all starve because everyone will be a billionaire so no one will go to work to produce food, farmers wont plough the fields, fisherman wont fish ...you get the picture...
Every person on the planet will want to have their own reality tv programme showing people around their bank vaults and showing their wealth ..
Jeff Bezos will still be showing off because he will have $400billion where us paupers will only have $1billion and my bank account will still be in the red after the wife goes on a shopping spree :lol:


Here's where I have a problem. Where machines, including computers and their algorithms reduce the need for people it seems to me that rather than make people unemployed, would it not be better to employ the same number of people but for less hours?

For me if you look at many societies they have existed on a few elites and an awful lot of slaves, sometimes literally. This to me is obscene. Using machines to give us all far more leisure time strikes me as enlightened.


Are you advocating our business model in Aus,tralia where (we) "may husband and aye", pay 25% above award rate and for only a four day week?

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