This person is a buffoon and deserves a stadium ban for a period of time but a three-year football banning order* and fine once again shows that football fans above any other groups are held to a far higher standard of behavior than most any persons.
Do we want 'tragedy chanting' at football grounds? - no (and its NOT an issue of free speech) but do we want to have fans continually treated far more harshly than the general public or than they would be outside of a football context?...hopefully not.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-67682034
*These are quite draconian with travel restrictions and exclusion zones on match-days, etc - its not simply a case of being unable to go to the club you support not to mention current/future employment prospects, this guy is 22 as well so hardly a fully grown up man per se (most of us were DH's and prone to occasional over excitement at 22 I suspect).
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
2Agreed. You’ve summed up my feelings on this. Why bother with all the various campaigns if you’re just going to hit people with severe arbitrary bans.
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
3Me personally I'd have banned him for life
It's totally unacceptable to go around taking the piss out of someone's death
It's totally unacceptable to go around taking the piss out of someone's death
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
4I agree that 'Its totally unacceptable to go around taking the piss out of someone's death' BUT if he'd have done that in the pub or Leeds city centre after a night out he'd probably have been asked to calm down and go home.UPTHEPORT wrote: December 12th, 2023, 9:58 am Me personally I'd have banned him for life
It's totally unacceptable to go around taking the piss out of someone's death
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
5I think sit the kid down and make him listen to the brilliant BBC Wales podcast on this tragedy - I was crying at points, this was an awful tragedy no doubt but the poor lad has been very harshly punished for being a nick head and not to get all class war on this, I went to uni myself after all, but bet far worse is chanted around the student unions of the cities universities after the Wednesday sports fixtures (and that's just the ladies hockey players!).Chepstow'sFine wrote: December 12th, 2023, 9:53 am Agreed. You’ve summed up my feelings on this. Why bother with all the various campaigns if you’re just going to hit people with severe arbitrary bans.
Last edited by CathedralCounty on December 12th, 2023, 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
6Gallows humour is how many people deal with the arbitrary nature of death. Section 5 Public order offences are used by police to remove people from the streets for being obnoxious.
Just my take. The man involved is an idiot. His punishment should be that which all of us feel the next day after doing something unpleasant. I felt ashamed and embarrassed when I did something equally unfeeling and cringe worthy.
Have any of us never done anything as unpleasant? Was anyone harassed, alarmed or distressed?
If it were up to me I'd have chucked him out of the ground and told him he was a pr!ck and to grow up.
Just my take. The man involved is an idiot. His punishment should be that which all of us feel the next day after doing something unpleasant. I felt ashamed and embarrassed when I did something equally unfeeling and cringe worthy.
Have any of us never done anything as unpleasant? Was anyone harassed, alarmed or distressed?
If it were up to me I'd have chucked him out of the ground and told him he was a pr!ck and to grow up.
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
7I agree, I have the utmost respect for [most] police officers but there seems to be a complete lack of common sense or consent in policing nowadays, I know we can never go back to the 'Heartbeat' style of policing those days are long gone (and well before I was born in any case) but the proportionality and seemingly inconsistent approach to policing the public is baffling & infuriating.Stan A. Einstein wrote: December 12th, 2023, 10:26 am Gallows humour is how many people deal with the arbitrary nature of death. Section 5 Public order offences are used by police to remove people from the streets for being obnoxious.
Just my take. The man involved is an idiot. His punishment should be that which all of us feel the next day after doing something unpleasant. I felt ashamed and embarrassed when I did something equally unfeeling and cringe worthy.
Have any of us never done anything as unpleasant? Was anyone harassed, alarmed or distressed?
If it were up to me I'd have chucked him out of the ground and told him he was a pr!ck and to grow up.
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
8But that misses the point that it wasn't done in a pub after a night out. He chose to show his stupidity at a football match against Cardiff City. Seems pretty selective to me.CathedralCounty wrote: December 12th, 2023, 10:06 amI agree that 'Its totally unacceptable to go around taking the piss out of someone's death' BUT if he'd have done that in the pub or Leeds city centre after a night out he'd probably have been asked to calm down and go home.UPTHEPORT wrote: December 12th, 2023, 9:58 am Me personally I'd have banned him for life
It's totally unacceptable to go around taking the piss out of someone's death
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
9Yes, I also feel the point is being missed here.
Make those sort of comments on Cardiff High Street, in a pub, on a train etc and you’ll get arrested for inciting hatred or more likely, breach of the peace.
It’s impossible to breach the peace in a busy, noisy football stadium so the authorities need another way to call out and punish unacceptable behaviour which had the potential to cause a riot, mass fighting etc.
Look at what the Greek government have done this week - it all kicked off in a volleyball game (I think) so they’ve introduced a stadium ban in all pro football leagues, because they know stupid & volatile football fans will follow suit.
Look at what happened in Turkey this week with a club President assaulting a referee.
This Leeds ‘fan’ has been treated lightly I feel and those who behave in such an appalling way to try to incite trouble in a stadium of 20-30,000 supporters need to be dealt with far more harshly than if he said the same thing in a pub with 20 drinkers in.
Make those sort of comments on Cardiff High Street, in a pub, on a train etc and you’ll get arrested for inciting hatred or more likely, breach of the peace.
It’s impossible to breach the peace in a busy, noisy football stadium so the authorities need another way to call out and punish unacceptable behaviour which had the potential to cause a riot, mass fighting etc.
Look at what the Greek government have done this week - it all kicked off in a volleyball game (I think) so they’ve introduced a stadium ban in all pro football leagues, because they know stupid & volatile football fans will follow suit.
Look at what happened in Turkey this week with a club President assaulting a referee.
This Leeds ‘fan’ has been treated lightly I feel and those who behave in such an appalling way to try to incite trouble in a stadium of 20-30,000 supporters need to be dealt with far more harshly than if he said the same thing in a pub with 20 drinkers in.
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
10I see your point but I don't agree.DeePeeNCAFC wrote: December 12th, 2023, 11:54 am Yes, I also feel the point is being missed here.
Make those sort of comments on Cardiff High Street, in a pub, on a train etc and you’ll get arrested for inciting hatred or more likely, breach of the peace.
It’s impossible to breach the peace in a busy, noisy football stadium so the authorities need another way to call out and punish unacceptable behaviour which had the potential to cause a riot, mass fighting etc.
Look at what the Greek government have done this week - it all kicked off in a volleyball game (I think) so they’ve introduced a stadium ban in all pro football leagues, because they know stupid & volatile football fans will follow suit.
Look at what happened in Turkey this week with a club President assaulting a referee.
This Leeds ‘fan’ has been treated lightly I feel and those who behave in such an appalling way to try to incite trouble in a stadium of 20-30,000 supporters need to be dealt with far more harshly than if he said the same thing in a pub with 20 drinkers in.
People do really stupid things. But that's the point. Stupidity usually happens when people don't think. I doubt very much he was trying to incite violence, more a stupid man trying to impress his friends. As a result of which this could well follow him for the rest of his life.
Hand on heart, would you want to be judged for the rest of your life for the worst and/or most stupid thing you've ever done?
Me neither.
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
11I hadn't thought of it in that context and you all have a fair point - however I still feel, perhaps for reasons of a 'class' hangover (or that there needs to be a scapegoat for all societies ills?), football fans are treated extremely harshly under the law in a way people indulging in/around other leisure venues are not and as a football fan I feel that needs to be pointed out.DeePeeNCAFC wrote: December 12th, 2023, 11:54 am Yes, I also feel the point is being missed here.
Make those sort of comments on Cardiff High Street, in a pub, on a train etc and you’ll get arrested for inciting hatred or more likely, breach of the peace.
It’s impossible to breach the peace in a busy, noisy football stadium so the authorities need another way to call out and punish unacceptable behaviour which had the potential to cause a riot, mass fighting etc.
Look at what the Greek government have done this week - it all kicked off in a volleyball game (I think) so they’ve introduced a stadium ban in all pro football leagues, because they know stupid & volatile football fans will follow suit.
Look at what happened in Turkey this week with a club President assaulting a referee.
This Leeds ‘fan’ has been treated lightly I feel and those who behave in such an appalling way to try to incite trouble in a stadium of 20-30,000 supporters need to be dealt with far more harshly than if he said the same thing in a pub with 20 drinkers in.
To be clear I'm in no way defending this buffoon - one can condemn someones behavior while also calling for proportionality in their punishment.
On This Leeds ‘fan’ has been treated lightly I feel and those who behave in such an appalling way to try to incite trouble in a stadium of 20-30,000 supporters need to be dealt with far more harshly than if he said the same thing in a pub with 20 drinkers in. conversely I'd argue the impact would be greater in a confined space with fewer people as everyone would have seen/heard exactly what was said and would have more of a direct impact if that makes sense? If someone insulted my wife in a packed stadium 5 rows away it would be less impactful than if they said it in a bar 3 feet away.
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
12The punishment is wildly disproportionate to the crime, especially in the current climate of two tier policing where you can freely chant anti-semitism on the streets as long as you're in an organised protest.
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
13Chepstow'sFine wrote: December 12th, 2023, 1:31 pm The punishment is wildly disproportionate to the crime, especially in the current climate of two tier policing where you can freely chant anti-semitism on the streets as long as you're in an organised protest.
Another right wing conspiracy
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
14Nonsense.Chepstow'sFine wrote: December 12th, 2023, 1:31 pm The punishment is wildly disproportionate to the crime, especially in the current climate of two tier policing where you can freely chant anti-semitism on the streets as long as you're in an organised protest.
You can't freely chant anti-semitism on the streets. And rightly so.
Calling out Netanyahu's band of thugs is not anti -semitic. Many Jews find the behaviour of the Israeli state as repulsive as I do. People who kill children, whether they be Hamas or the Israeli Defence Forces dehumanize the world and shame us all.
Re: Emiliano Sala death: Leeds United fan banned over gestures
15Its not a 'conspiracy' though is it? whether by accident or design we do have a somehow 'selective' approach to policing in the UK (partly down to picking 'low hanging fruit' simply due to lack of resources).UPTHEPORT wrote: December 12th, 2023, 1:39 pmChepstow'sFine wrote: December 12th, 2023, 1:31 pm The punishment is wildly disproportionate to the crime, especially in the current climate of two tier policing where you can freely chant anti-semitism on the streets as long as you're in an organised protest.
Another right wing conspiracy
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