Well indeed and without going much further down the Wrexham rabbit hole again it is 'interesting' that their average in 2020/21 season was about 5,000 (still extremely good for 5th tier of course and evidence they are a 'big(ger)' club) but as you say have increased for [obvious] reasons aside from catchment area...Wrexham seems to be an outlier in terms of attendances and supporter base - counter intuitively the club border an area with a huge number of accessible 'glamorous' clubs has always been very well supported (although as with Tranmere Rovers they likely pull in a lot of fans of bigger clubs when those teams are away), that said North Wales has never had that competition from Rugby Union thus the North is or certainly was more of a 'football hotbed' than much of the south.Bangitintrnet wrote: January 4th, 2024, 2:53 pm With the population of Wrexham changing less than the average for Wales, it's odd how their home gates have quadrupled.
It must be that there is some other catalyst for change at Wrexham FC that trumps population............
Re: Eastleigh and Wrexham home tickets.
77I suspect that every owner outside the Premier League would line up to question your maths - the £920,000 does not come without additional cost infra structure, policing etc. Ignoring the figures signing players on twice the income comes with on cost, NIC's agents and other benefits housing (at a higher standard) bonuses etc. If success comes close, the pressure to spend increases to push over line (see Flynn years and the burning of the cup money). Additional 2,000 has capacity issues again infra structure cost but also the Bisley is now virtually full /actually full in acceptable seats (not seats that will get you soaked if it rains). Without notable spend and a lot of success County will not sustain gates > 5,000 never has been or will be a football city.Stan A. Einstein wrote: January 3rd, 2024, 11:48 amNo he isn't. This is not a criticism of Mr Jenkins nor of the decision of the Trust to effectively gift him the club. On which I'm neutral. However get real on this one. The example below uses ball park figures but you'll get the idea.CathedralCounty wrote: January 3rd, 2024, 10:30 am
HJ is doing whatever it is he is doing for largely altruistic reasons.
The consortium invests in Newport County say £500,000. This is in the form of a loan. That allows Newport County to sign five players on £100,000 pa. County the of course release five 'lesser players' who are being paid £50,000pa.
Three possibilities.
Doesn't work out County go bust. The consortium lose all their money. That is very unlikely. But as any entrepreneur will tell you in business that is a chance you take.
County stumble on much as before. The loan gets repaid. That could well happen.
County spurred on by the new players have a wonderful season. Average crowds increase by 2,000 as County win promotion. Now do the maths, allowing for £20 per spectator when concessions are brought into the equation. £20 x 2,000 = £40,000. £40,000 x 23 = £920,000. You're not going to get an interest rate of 84% at the Bradford & Bingley. And you can do it next year and the year after that. And sell to Yankee investors when the time is right.
Newport is a big town. Properly administered County should have being a Championship side as our default position. Mr Jenkins is doing this to make money. I don't have a problem with that. But let's be realistic. Father Christmas is a myth, the managers and players do not live Newport County. And people who fork out £10 a month for Trust membership and or £50 for an ill fitting nylon shirt advertising some company or other make County a very low risk high return investment.
Re: Eastleigh and Wrexham home tickets.
78That is the attitude which I find so depressing. As soon as you believe you're beaten you are.County ranger wrote: January 4th, 2024, 3:11 pm
County will not sustain gates > 5,000 never has been or will be a football city.
Re: Eastleigh and Wrexham home tickets.
79Some things just are some things work in Newport some things don't places have their own culture and thought process - again I'd agree there is a little bit of a tendency to be negative in Newport but there are lots of reasons for that - despite the rose tinted view if we looks back at attendances over the piece, even if we discount the 25 years in non league - County have never had particularly big attendances (limited of course by the relatively small Somerton Park) - I do feel 5,000 home fans is about our limit in the league unless we reach the top 2 divisions, of course if we get to the top 2 divisions the 'gate' becomes less important compared to commercial/sponsorship income in any case.Stan A. Einstein wrote: January 4th, 2024, 11:35 pmThat is the attitude which I find so depressing. As soon as you believe you're beaten you are.County ranger wrote: January 4th, 2024, 3:11 pm
County will not sustain gates > 5,000 never has been or will be a football city.
https://european-football-statistics.co ... e/newc.htm
Re: Eastleigh and Wrexham home tickets.
80A few towns with similar or lower populations than Newport.CathedralCounty wrote: January 5th, 2024, 9:07 amSome things just are some things work in Newport some things don't places have their own culture and thought process - again I'd agree there is a little bit of a tendency to be negative in Newport but there are lots of reasons for that - despite the rose tinted view if we looks back at attendances over the piece, even if we discount the 25 years in non league - County have never had particularly big attendances (limited of course by the relatively small Somerton Park) - I do feel 5,000 home fans is about our limit in the league unless we reach the top 2 divisions, of course if we get to the top 2 divisions the 'gate' becomes less important compared to commercial/sponsorship income in any case.Stan A. Einstein wrote: January 4th, 2024, 11:35 pmThat is the attitude which I find so depressing. As soon as you believe you're beaten you are.County ranger wrote: January 4th, 2024, 3:11 pm
County will not sustain gates > 5,000 never has been or will be a football city.
https://european-football-statistics.co ... e/newc.htm
Preston, Huddersfield, Burnley, Ipswich. I could go on.
Now why do you believe the populations of those towns are prepared to watch their local football team when the people of Newport are not? My belief is that Newport County have been badly administeted. My belief is the people of Newport are no different from the people of anywhere else. My belief is that if Newport County were administered properly our club could be as successful as the teams representing the towns I've mentioned above.
Saying Newport is not a football town, saying the people of Newport are only intetested in booze and bookies, is simply making excuses. I am absolutely open to listening to counter arguments but not to bear assertions. If you genuinely believe that Newportonians are different to people elsewhere tell me why.
Re: Eastleigh and Wrexham home tickets.
81As I said some things just are but for the clubs you list all were formed earlier than Newport County MK1, only 1 has direct competition from rugby [league] and all have won major trophies/leagues - they are all 'bigger' clubs than Newport County and all have played in the top 2 divisions for much or most of their history and certainly for most of their recent history, and also all have objectively nicer [fully covered] stadiums with larger capacities than ours, ownership models of stadiums aside, that gives them the ability to be more flexible with ticketing that County have (as even if we did go up a division or two we only have 8,000 spaces in our stadium to play with - the club you list have at least double that).Stan A. Einstein wrote: January 5th, 2024, 10:03 amA few towns with similar or lower populations than Newport.CathedralCounty wrote: January 5th, 2024, 9:07 amSome things just are some things work in Newport some things don't places have their own culture and thought process - again I'd agree there is a little bit of a tendency to be negative in Newport but there are lots of reasons for that - despite the rose tinted view if we looks back at attendances over the piece, even if we discount the 25 years in non league - County have never had particularly big attendances (limited of course by the relatively small Somerton Park) - I do feel 5,000 home fans is about our limit in the league unless we reach the top 2 divisions, of course if we get to the top 2 divisions the 'gate' becomes less important compared to commercial/sponsorship income in any case.Stan A. Einstein wrote: January 4th, 2024, 11:35 pmThat is the attitude which I find so depressing. As soon as you believe you're beaten you are.County ranger wrote: January 4th, 2024, 3:11 pm
County will not sustain gates > 5,000 never has been or will be a football city.
https://european-football-statistics.co ... e/newc.htm
Preston, Huddersfield, Burnley, Ipswich. I could go on.
Now why do you believe the populations of those towns are prepared to watch their local football team when the people of Newport are not? My belief is that Newport County have been badly administeted. My belief is the people of Newport are no different from the people of anywhere else. My belief is that if Newport County were administered properly our club could be as successful as the teams representing the towns I've mentioned above.
Saying Newport is not a football town, saying the people of Newport are only intetested in booze and bookies, is simply making excuses. I am absolutely open to listening to counter arguments but not to bear assertions. If you genuinely believe that Newportonians are different to people elsewhere tell me why.
I don't have the time nor energy to list all the reasons and thoughts here - I do actually have a job (!) and dip in and out of this forum - some days a lot more than others clearly...
Re: Eastleigh and Wrexham home tickets.
82Yes these clubs do have better stadia. These clubs do have more flexible ticket arraingements. That is because they are properly administered.
Now get back to work.
Now get back to work.
Re: Eastleigh and Wrexham home tickets.
83They have all had a catalyst, look at the figures above and the annual attendance figures. The years we had cup runs had little impact on attendance, it was tv money, commercial activity that is linked etc, that provides the excess income.Stan A. Einstein wrote: January 5th, 2024, 10:34 am Yes these clubs do have better stadia. These clubs do have more flexible ticket arraingements. That is because they are properly administered.
Now get back to work.
No matter how much you knock previous administrations, you can't force people to attend, they have to have a desire.
Sometimes that might be wanting to spend time with a family member, or it may be a social group that go together and it becomes habitual. In your case you had a reason to be in Newport to visit family, now you don't. Others will have moved away and the cycle begins again.
It is success that drives people to attend out of curiosity, and a need to see why people are excited.
Re: Eastleigh and Wrexham home tickets.
84Somerton Park may have been relatively small but before H&S rules almost 25000 were able to fit in it, so SP can't be blamed for small attendances.CathedralCounty wrote: January 5th, 2024, 9:07 amSome things just are some things work in Newport some things don't places have their own culture and thought process - again I'd agree there is a little bit of a tendency to be negative in Newport but there are lots of reasons for that - despite the rose tinted view if we looks back at attendances over the piece, even if we discount the 25 years in non league - County have never had particularly big attendances (limited of course by the relatively small Somerton Park) - I do feel 5,000 home fans is about our limit in the league unless we reach the top 2 divisions, of course if we get to the top 2 divisions the 'gate' becomes less important compared to commercial/sponsorship income in any case.Stan A. Einstein wrote: January 4th, 2024, 11:35 pmThat is the attitude which I find so depressing. As soon as you believe you're beaten you are.County ranger wrote: January 4th, 2024, 3:11 pm
County will not sustain gates > 5,000 never has been or will be a football city.
https://european-football-statistics.co ... e/newc.htm
Re: Eastleigh and Wrexham home tickets.
85I think it should be high up HJ's 'to do' list to try and find out from evidence, as opposed to speculation, why people are not going to County matches and what, if anything, he can do about it. Some money spent on researching that and dealing with any findings could be some of the best money that he will spend.
Re: Eastleigh and Wrexham home tickets.
86Having been at Swansea for 20 years I don’t believe he needs a report, he's the expert and knows what works and what doesn't.Chris Davis wrote: January 5th, 2024, 11:26 am I think it should be high up HJ's 'to do' list to try and find out from evidence, as opposed to speculation, why people are not going to County matches and what, if anything, he can do about it. Some money spent on researching that and dealing with any findings could be some of the best money that he will spend.
Re: Eastleigh and Wrexham home tickets.
87These are Swansea's average crowds from the mid-80s to the early 2000s (i.e., when they were sh!t).Bangitintrnet wrote: January 5th, 2024, 11:36 amHaving been at Swansea for 20 years I don’t believe he needs a report, he's the expert and knows what works and what doesn't.Chris Davis wrote: January 5th, 2024, 11:26 am I think it should be high up HJ's 'to do' list to try and find out from evidence, as opposed to speculation, why people are not going to County matches and what, if anything, he can do about it. Some money spent on researching that and dealing with any findings could be some of the best money that he will spend.
1985 4,421
1986 4,306
1987 5,169
1988 4,471
1989 4,897
1990 4,223
1991 3,665
1992 3,367
1993 5,199
1994 3,534
1995 3,582
1996 2,996
1997 3,850
1998 3,443
1999 5,225
2000 5,895
2001 4,913
2002 3,690
2003 5,160
Anyone notice any similarities?
Re: Eastleigh and Wrexham home tickets.
88Properly administered??Stan A. Einstein wrote: January 5th, 2024, 10:34 am Yes these clubs do have better stadia. These clubs do have more flexible ticket arraingements. That is because they are properly administered.
Now get back to work.
Preston North End - gross debt of £78m at the end of the last financial year, a £15m increase on the previous year.
Huddersfield Town - had to be saved from administration last year by new owners and whose previous owner wrote off £40m in loans owed to him.
Ipswich Town - placed into administration last year.
Burnley - placed under a transfer embargo last year and were previously the subject of an EFL investigation into their dubious ownership structure.
Re: Eastleigh and Wrexham home tickets.
89Agree entirely with your analysis. Anyone who reads that which I have written and looks at the figures you have posted with a degree of objectivity will get the point.rncfc wrote: January 5th, 2024, 11:51 am
These are Swansea's average crowds from the mid-80s to the early 2000s (i.e., when they were sh!t).
1985 4,421
1986 4,306
1987 5,169
1988 4,471
1989 4,897
1990 4,223
1991 3,665
1992 3,367
1993 5,199
1994 3,534
1995 3,582
1996 2,996
1997 3,850
1998 3,443
1999 5,225
2000 5,895
2001 4,913
2002 3,690
2003 5,160
Anyone notice any similarities?
Anyone wanting to make excuses is the problem.
Re: Eastleigh and Wrexham home tickets.
90Why are you making these things up?Jonesy3 wrote: January 5th, 2024, 12:15 pmProperly administered??Stan A. Einstein wrote: January 5th, 2024, 10:34 am Yes these clubs do have better stadia. These clubs do have more flexible ticket arraingements. That is because they are properly administered.
Now get back to work.
Preston North End - gross debt of £78m at the end of the last financial year, a £15m increase on the previous year.
Huddersfield Town - had to be saved from administration last year by new owners and whose previous owner wrote off £40m in loans owed to him.
Ipswich Town - placed into administration last year.
Burnley - placed under a transfer embargo last year and were previously the subject of an EFL investigation into their dubious ownership structure.
Football finances are murky but Ipswich in administration last year? Really. I must have missed their 10 point deduction. Then again maybe you missed the 2. As in they did go into administration in 2003.
Yes Dean Hoyle wrote of debts at Hudderfield, but he sold his 100% shareholding for far more.
Burnley. Sold to ALK Capital for £170,000,000 in 2020. Not a bad return for the local investors in a well run club.
Preston. Effectively owned by the Hemmings family since Adam was a boy.
Compare the League positions of the four clubs above with the continual psycho-drama of Newport County finances.
Please stop wasting my time and misleading the readers of this board. Try doing a bit of research first.
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