Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:14 am

Amberexile wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:48 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:36 am

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 9:44 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 28th, 2024, 8:45 pm

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 12:13 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 28th, 2024, 11:58 am

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 11:03 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 28th, 2024, 10:18 am

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 9:48 am

It isn't that I believe we made profits in 2020 and 2021 it is that it is stated as a fact in the audited and published accounts. As is the loss in 2022 with no explanation.

Thses are facts unless you believe the accounts are incorrect?

You are hard work aren't you.

You don't seem to get that RP was on both sides of the credit and loss in the accounts. It is also impossible for you to believe that RP didn't go to the WRU and say we can't pay as we don’t have income, and nor can our tenants.

Payments were deferred, and also things such as wages, bonuses, monies due to pay for pitch renewal etc etc.

Look at the Carlisle accounts if you want to see what clubs did during covid, they had the problem of a major backer going bust, and the receiver looking at recovering millions from a football club loan.

We know for a fact that our accounts were wrong, because we were told they were wrong, and that future years were changed to suit.

Why do you still believe in the covid years accounts fantasy profits?

Hard facts that you don't like are always hard work until you accept them and

The accounts do not support your illogical assumptions, nor does standard accountancy practice.

Since you like to live in a fantasy world, try this what if... what if the acoustic to June 2023 which we have not yet seen show another 7 figure loss?

Of course the several accountants including the football forensic accountant for the FA, back up your view that what you are looking at, bears any resemblance to fact or indeed standard accountancy practice did they?

The Carlisle accounts confirm that what clubs were doing was taking advantage of deferring payments and low interest loans. It was to make sure that the cash account (from in their case, player sales) stayed as cash, available to be used for all things that our windfall cash was used for.

Why did HJ confirm that the club had cash flow problems, if he was expecting to pay 7 figures, season after season?

Yes the accountants did back up the facts published in the accounts.
That is why they remained unchanged and still show an audited loss of £1.2 million.

So the question that you cannot answer remains. What causef that loss to occur?

I would have thought that was obvious lol,

Go on then answer. How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Covid was a massive problem, but for business it was an opportunity to get low interest loans with few questions asked. That's what we were competing with, and clubs with owners who could take advantage did. Our owner was the trust membership, how do you join the party without a company?
So others are spending large amounts and offering our better players contacts. So what happens to our negotiating position in that situation? So we end up with overspends just to stand still. But it is all deferred, payments to RP deferred, bonus payments deferred.
So when the spending occurs and payback happens are two different times. That's what I think happened to us, but to others the loans were written off.

HJ still has the problem of other clubs using owners money in large quantities. The trust showed it could put out a team that could prosper, and this seasons budget has, as our league standing and Cup run has shown. That keeps crowds higher, consolidates the fan base, and this year pays off the overspend.

The challenge for HJ is to match the trust achievements, while reducing the costs by finding new opportunities. The new shop in Friars Walk is higher profile, and no doubt higher cost but as that is shared with the Dragon's, it is a small example of what he is looking to build upon.

We don't have the finances of the likes of Bradford or FGR or Salford, but we are above those teams, and looking to finish top half with a trust budget.

A lot of words to say that you don't know, you can't give any definitive answers.

I want to know, it would seem others want to know also,

And that is the point, none of us know because those who do know won't tell us - How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Can you definitively answer all of those questions? A simple yes or no response will do.

I have answered in detail what I think, but you are deaf to anything other than it has to be a physical quantity.

IMO they have spent it on maintaining and building the club, it is slow process, due to financial disadvantage, but we all hope the process will continue and progress under HJ.

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:59 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:14 am

Amberexile wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:48 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:36 am

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 9:44 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 28th, 2024, 8:45 pm

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 12:13 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 28th, 2024, 11:58 am

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 11:03 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 28th, 2024, 10:18 am

You are hard work aren't you.

You don't seem to get that RP was on both sides of the credit and loss in the accounts. It is also impossible for you to believe that RP didn't go to the WRU and say we can't pay as we don’t have income, and nor can our tenants.

Payments were deferred, and also things such as wages, bonuses, monies due to pay for pitch renewal etc etc.

Look at the Carlisle accounts if you want to see what clubs did during covid, they had the problem of a major backer going bust, and the receiver looking at recovering millions from a football club loan.

We know for a fact that our accounts were wrong, because we were told they were wrong, and that future years were changed to suit.

Why do you still believe in the covid years accounts fantasy profits?

Hard facts that you don't like are always hard work until you accept them and

The accounts do not support your illogical assumptions, nor does standard accountancy practice.

Since you like to live in a fantasy world, try this what if... what if the acoustic to June 2023 which we have not yet seen show another 7 figure loss?

Of course the several accountants including the football forensic accountant for the FA, back up your view that what you are looking at, bears any resemblance to fact or indeed standard accountancy practice did they?

The Carlisle accounts confirm that what clubs were doing was taking advantage of deferring payments and low interest loans. It was to make sure that the cash account (from in their case, player sales) stayed as cash, available to be used for all things that our windfall cash was used for.

Why did HJ confirm that the club had cash flow problems, if he was expecting to pay 7 figures, season after season?

Yes the accountants did back up the facts published in the accounts.
That is why they remained unchanged and still show an audited loss of £1.2 million.

So the question that you cannot answer remains. What causef that loss to occur?

I would have thought that was obvious lol,

Go on then answer. How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Covid was a massive problem, but for business it was an opportunity to get low interest loans with few questions asked. That's what we were competing with, and clubs with owners who could take advantage did. Our owner was the trust membership, how do you join the party without a company?
So others are spending large amounts and offering our better players contacts. So what happens to our negotiating position in that situation? So we end up with overspends just to stand still. But it is all deferred, payments to RP deferred, bonus payments deferred.
So when the spending occurs and payback happens are two different times. That's what I think happened to us, but to others the loans were written off.

HJ still has the problem of other clubs using owners money in large quantities. The trust showed it could put out a team that could prosper, and this seasons budget has, as our league standing and Cup run has shown. That keeps crowds higher, consolidates the fan base, and this year pays off the overspend.

The challenge for HJ is to match the trust achievements, while reducing the costs by finding new opportunities. The new shop in Friars Walk is higher profile, and no doubt higher cost but as that is shared with the Dragon's, it is a small example of what he is looking to build upon.

We don't have the finances of the likes of Bradford or FGR or Salford, but we are above those teams, and looking to finish top half with a trust budget.

A lot of words to say that you don't know, you can't give any definitive answers.

I want to know, it would seem others want to know also,

And that is the point, none of us know because those who do know won't tell us - How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Can you definitively answer all of those questions? A simple yes or no response will do.

I have answered in detail what I think, but you are deaf to anything other than it has to be a physical quantity.

IMO they have spent it on maintaining and building the club, it is slow process, due to financial disadvantage, but we all hope the process will continue and progress under HJ.

Yes, you have answered in great detail, haven't you? Spoken with such confidence, it's almost like you know something we don't.

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 10:26 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:59 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:14 am

Amberexile wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:48 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:36 am

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 9:44 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 28th, 2024, 8:45 pm

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 12:13 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 28th, 2024, 11:58 am

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 11:03 am

Hard facts that you don't like are always hard work until you accept them and

The accounts do not support your illogical assumptions, nor does standard accountancy practice.

Since you like to live in a fantasy world, try this what if... what if the acoustic to June 2023 which we have not yet seen show another 7 figure loss?

Of course the several accountants including the football forensic accountant for the FA, back up your view that what you are looking at, bears any resemblance to fact or indeed standard accountancy practice did they?

The Carlisle accounts confirm that what clubs were doing was taking advantage of deferring payments and low interest loans. It was to make sure that the cash account (from in their case, player sales) stayed as cash, available to be used for all things that our windfall cash was used for.

Why did HJ confirm that the club had cash flow problems, if he was expecting to pay 7 figures, season after season?

Yes the accountants did back up the facts published in the accounts.
That is why they remained unchanged and still show an audited loss of £1.2 million.

So the question that you cannot answer remains. What causef that loss to occur?

I would have thought that was obvious lol,

Go on then answer. How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Covid was a massive problem, but for business it was an opportunity to get low interest loans with few questions asked. That's what we were competing with, and clubs with owners who could take advantage did. Our owner was the trust membership, how do you join the party without a company?
So others are spending large amounts and offering our better players contacts. So what happens to our negotiating position in that situation? So we end up with overspends just to stand still. But it is all deferred, payments to RP deferred, bonus payments deferred.
So when the spending occurs and payback happens are two different times. That's what I think happened to us, but to others the loans were written off.

HJ still has the problem of other clubs using owners money in large quantities. The trust showed it could put out a team that could prosper, and this seasons budget has, as our league standing and Cup run has shown. That keeps crowds higher, consolidates the fan base, and this year pays off the overspend.

The challenge for HJ is to match the trust achievements, while reducing the costs by finding new opportunities. The new shop in Friars Walk is higher profile, and no doubt higher cost but as that is shared with the Dragon's, it is a small example of what he is looking to build upon.

We don't have the finances of the likes of Bradford or FGR or Salford, but we are above those teams, and looking to finish top half with a trust budget.

A lot of words to say that you don't know, you can't give any definitive answers.

I want to know, it would seem others want to know also,

And that is the point, none of us know because those who do know won't tell us - How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Can you definitively answer all of those questions? A simple yes or no response will do.

I have answered in detail what I think, but you are deaf to anything other than it has to be a physical quantity.

IMO they have spent it on maintaining and building the club, it is slow process, due to financial disadvantage, but we all hope the process will continue and progress under HJ.

Yes, you have answered in great detail, haven't you? Spoken with such confidence, it's almost like you know something we don't.

It's because I have looked at other clubs accounts, and particularly where details are sketchy or covered by non disclosure clauses linked to the parent owners accounts, and realised why, when debts are written off. Not for any other reason that you believe.

I look at all those premiership clubs that have visited RP. I look at the playoff finals, and higher finishes than the budget should expect. I look at the quality of the pitch, the electronic advertising, the positive relationship with others, that helps them also invest in things that might not be their own highest priority. I think £1 for £1 the trust has had an extraordinary period in control, and what's more I believe that we can do it again. Next time with a younger trust membership not influenced by the words Jerry Sherman, and what led to him being able to take control. That's what drives a desire to police the management, simply ignoring the achievements of what has been an incredible 8 years.

The trust can take over from HJ, it is capable of further success, we don't need to gamble on future owners, we just need to believe in our ability to deliver that future.

If all people see the trust for, is a way of getting priority tickets, and policing owners when all the real stuff will be hidden anyway, then frankly why bother continuing with it?

Taunton Iron Cider wrote: January 29th, 2024, 11:18 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 10:26 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:59 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:14 am

Amberexile wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:48 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:36 am

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 9:44 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 28th, 2024, 8:45 pm

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 12:13 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 28th, 2024, 11:58 am

Of course the several accountants including the football forensic accountant for the FA, back up your view that what you are looking at, bears any resemblance to fact or indeed standard accountancy practice did they?

The Carlisle accounts confirm that what clubs were doing was taking advantage of deferring payments and low interest loans. It was to make sure that the cash account (from in their case, player sales) stayed as cash, available to be used for all things that our windfall cash was used for.

Why did HJ confirm that the club had cash flow problems, if he was expecting to pay 7 figures, season after season?

Yes the accountants did back up the facts published in the accounts.
That is why they remained unchanged and still show an audited loss of £1.2 million.

So the question that you cannot answer remains. What causef that loss to occur?

I would have thought that was obvious lol,

Go on then answer. How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Covid was a massive problem, but for business it was an opportunity to get low interest loans with few questions asked. That's what we were competing with, and clubs with owners who could take advantage did. Our owner was the trust membership, how do you join the party without a company?
So others are spending large amounts and offering our better players contacts. So what happens to our negotiating position in that situation? So we end up with overspends just to stand still. But it is all deferred, payments to RP deferred, bonus payments deferred.
So when the spending occurs and payback happens are two different times. That's what I think happened to us, but to others the loans were written off.

HJ still has the problem of other clubs using owners money in large quantities. The trust showed it could put out a team that could prosper, and this seasons budget has, as our league standing and Cup run has shown. That keeps crowds higher, consolidates the fan base, and this year pays off the overspend.

The challenge for HJ is to match the trust achievements, while reducing the costs by finding new opportunities. The new shop in Friars Walk is higher profile, and no doubt higher cost but as that is shared with the Dragon's, it is a small example of what he is looking to build upon.

We don't have the finances of the likes of Bradford or FGR or Salford, but we are above those teams, and looking to finish top half with a trust budget.

A lot of words to say that you don't know, you can't give any definitive answers.

I want to know, it would seem others want to know also,

And that is the point, none of us know because those who do know won't tell us - How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Can you definitively answer all of those questions? A simple yes or no response will do.

I have answered in detail what I think, but you are deaf to anything other than it has to be a physical quantity.

IMO they have spent it on maintaining and building the club, it is slow process, due to financial disadvantage, but we all hope the process will continue and progress under HJ.

Yes, you have answered in great detail, haven't you? Spoken with such confidence, it's almost like you know something we don't.

It's because I have looked at other clubs accounts, and particularly where details are sketchy or covered by non disclosure clauses linked to the parent owners accounts, and realised why, when debts are written off. Not for any other reason that you believe.

I look at all those premiership clubs that have visited RP. I look at the playoff finals, and higher finishes than the budget should expect. I look at the quality of the pitch, the electronic advertising, the positive relationship with others, that helps them also invest in things that might not be their own highest priority. I think £1 for £1 the trust has had an extraordinary period in control, and what's more I believe that we can do it again. Next time with a younger trust membership not influenced by the words Jerry Sherman, and what led to him being able to take control. That's what drives a desire to police the management, simply ignoring the achievements of what has been an incredible 8 years.

The trust can take over from HJ, it is capable of further success, we don't need to gamble on future owners, we just need to believe in our ability to deliver that future.

If all people see the trust for, is a way of getting priority tickets, and policing owners when all the real stuff will be hidden anyway, then frankly why bother continuing with it?

The trust can take over from HJ, it is capable of further success, thank you for the best laugh of the day!

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 10:26 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:59 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:14 am

Amberexile wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:48 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:36 am

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 9:44 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 28th, 2024, 8:45 pm

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 12:13 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 28th, 2024, 11:58 am

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 11:03 am

Hard facts that you don't like are always hard work until you accept them and

The accounts do not support your illogical assumptions, nor does standard accountancy practice.

Since you like to live in a fantasy world, try this what if... what if the acoustic to June 2023 which we have not yet seen show another 7 figure loss?

Of course the several accountants including the football forensic accountant for the FA, back up your view that what you are looking at, bears any resemblance to fact or indeed standard accountancy practice did they?

The Carlisle accounts confirm that what clubs were doing was taking advantage of deferring payments and low interest loans. It was to make sure that the cash account (from in their case, player sales) stayed as cash, available to be used for all things that our windfall cash was used for.

Why did HJ confirm that the club had cash flow problems, if he was expecting to pay 7 figures, season after season?

Yes the accountants did back up the facts published in the accounts.
That is why they remained unchanged and still show an audited loss of £1.2 million.

So the question that you cannot answer remains. What causef that loss to occur?

I would have thought that was obvious lol,

Go on then answer. How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Covid was a massive problem, but for business it was an opportunity to get low interest loans with few questions asked. That's what we were competing with, and clubs with owners who could take advantage did. Our owner was the trust membership, how do you join the party without a company?
So others are spending large amounts and offering our better players contacts. So what happens to our negotiating position in that situation? So we end up with overspends just to stand still. But it is all deferred, payments to RP deferred, bonus payments deferred.
So when the spending occurs and payback happens are two different times. That's what I think happened to us, but to others the loans were written off.

HJ still has the problem of other clubs using owners money in large quantities. The trust showed it could put out a team that could prosper, and this seasons budget has, as our league standing and Cup run has shown. That keeps crowds higher, consolidates the fan base, and this year pays off the overspend.

The challenge for HJ is to match the trust achievements, while reducing the costs by finding new opportunities. The new shop in Friars Walk is higher profile, and no doubt higher cost but as that is shared with the Dragon's, it is a small example of what he is looking to build upon.

We don't have the finances of the likes of Bradford or FGR or Salford, but we are above those teams, and looking to finish top half with a trust budget.

A lot of words to say that you don't know, you can't give any definitive answers.

I want to know, it would seem others want to know also,

And that is the point, none of us know because those who do know won't tell us - How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Can you definitively answer all of those questions? A simple yes or no response will do.

I have answered in detail what I think, but you are deaf to anything other than it has to be a physical quantity.

IMO they have spent it on maintaining and building the club, it is slow process, due to financial disadvantage, but we all hope the process will continue and progress under HJ.

Yes, you have answered in great detail, haven't you? Spoken with such confidence, it's almost like you know something we don't.

It's because I have looked at other clubs accounts, and particularly where details are sketchy or covered by non disclosure clauses linked to the parent owners accounts, and realised why, when debts are written off. Not for any other reason that you believe.

I look at all those premiership clubs that have visited RP. I look at the playoff finals, and higher finishes than the budget should expect. I look at the quality of the pitch, the electronic advertising, the positive relationship with others, that helps them also invest in things that might not be their own highest priority. I think £1 for £1 the trust has had an extraordinary period in control, and what's more I believe that we can do it again. Next time with a younger trust membership not influenced by the words Jerry Sherman, and what led to him being able to take control. That's what drives a desire to police the management, simply ignoring the achievements of what has been an incredible 8 years.

The trust can take over from HJ, it is capable of further success, we don't need to gamble on future owners, we just need to believe in our ability to deliver that future.

If all people see the trust for, is a way of getting priority tickets, and policing owners when all the real stuff will be hidden anyway, then frankly why bother continuing with it?

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 10:26 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:59 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:14 am

Amberexile wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:48 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:36 am

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 9:44 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 28th, 2024, 8:45 pm

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 12:13 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 28th, 2024, 11:58 am

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 11:03 am

Hard facts that you don't like are always hard work until you accept them and

The accounts do not support your illogical assumptions, nor does standard accountancy practice.

Since you like to live in a fantasy world, try this what if... what if the acoustic to June 2023 which we have not yet seen show another 7 figure loss?

Of course the several accountants including the football forensic accountant for the FA, back up your view that what you are looking at, bears any resemblance to fact or indeed standard accountancy practice did they?

The Carlisle accounts confirm that what clubs were doing was taking advantage of deferring payments and low interest loans. It was to make sure that the cash account (from in their case, player sales) stayed as cash, available to be used for all things that our windfall cash was used for.

Why did HJ confirm that the club had cash flow problems, if he was expecting to pay 7 figures, season after season?

Yes the accountants did back up the facts published in the accounts.
That is why they remained unchanged and still show an audited loss of £1.2 million.

So the question that you cannot answer remains. What causef that loss to occur?

I would have thought that was obvious lol,

Go on then answer. How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Covid was a massive problem, but for business it was an opportunity to get low interest loans with few questions asked. That's what we were competing with, and clubs with owners who could take advantage did. Our owner was the trust membership, how do you join the party without a company?
So others are spending large amounts and offering our better players contacts. So what happens to our negotiating position in that situation? So we end up with overspends just to stand still. But it is all deferred, payments to RP deferred, bonus payments deferred.
So when the spending occurs and payback happens are two different times. That's what I think happened to us, but to others the loans were written off.

HJ still has the problem of other clubs using owners money in large quantities. The trust showed it could put out a team that could prosper, and this seasons budget has, as our league standing and Cup run has shown. That keeps crowds higher, consolidates the fan base, and this year pays off the overspend.

The challenge for HJ is to match the trust achievements, while reducing the costs by finding new opportunities. The new shop in Friars Walk is higher profile, and no doubt higher cost but as that is shared with the Dragon's, it is a small example of what he is looking to build upon.

We don't have the finances of the likes of Bradford or FGR or Salford, but we are above those teams, and looking to finish top half with a trust budget.

A lot of words to say that you don't know, you can't give any definitive answers.

I want to know, it would seem others want to know also,

And that is the point, none of us know because those who do know won't tell us - How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Can you definitively answer all of those questions? A simple yes or no response will do.

I have answered in detail what I think, but you are deaf to anything other than it has to be a physical quantity.

IMO they have spent it on maintaining and building the club, it is slow process, due to financial disadvantage, but we all hope the process will continue and progress under HJ.

Yes, you have answered in great detail, haven't you? Spoken with such confidence, it's almost like you know something we don't.

It's because I have looked at other clubs accounts, and particularly where details are sketchy or covered by non disclosure clauses linked to the parent owners accounts, and realised why, when debts are written off. Not for any other reason that you believe.

I look at all those premiership clubs that have visited RP. I look at the playoff finals, and higher finishes than the budget should expect. I look at the quality of the pitch, the electronic advertising, the positive relationship with others, that helps them also invest in things that might not be their own highest priority. I think £1 for £1 the trust has had an extraordinary period in control, and what's more I believe that we can do it again. Next time with a younger trust membership not influenced by the words Jerry Sherman, and what led to him being able to take control. That's what drives a desire to police the management, simply ignoring the achievements of what has been an incredible 8 years.

The trust can take over from HJ, it is capable of further success, we don't need to gamble on future owners, we just need to believe in our ability to deliver that future.

If all people see the trust for, is a way of getting priority tickets, and policing owners when all the real stuff will be hidden anyway, then frankly why bother continuing with it?

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 11:22 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 10:26 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:59 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:14 am

Amberexile wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:48 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:36 am

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 9:44 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 28th, 2024, 8:45 pm

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 12:13 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 28th, 2024, 11:58 am

Of course the several accountants including the football forensic accountant for the FA, back up your view that what you are looking at, bears any resemblance to fact or indeed standard accountancy practice did they?

The Carlisle accounts confirm that what clubs were doing was taking advantage of deferring payments and low interest loans. It was to make sure that the cash account (from in their case, player sales) stayed as cash, available to be used for all things that our windfall cash was used for.

Why did HJ confirm that the club had cash flow problems, if he was expecting to pay 7 figures, season after season?

Yes the accountants did back up the facts published in the accounts.
That is why they remained unchanged and still show an audited loss of £1.2 million.

So the question that you cannot answer remains. What causef that loss to occur?

I would have thought that was obvious lol,

Go on then answer. How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Covid was a massive problem, but for business it was an opportunity to get low interest loans with few questions asked. That's what we were competing with, and clubs with owners who could take advantage did. Our owner was the trust membership, how do you join the party without a company?
So others are spending large amounts and offering our better players contacts. So what happens to our negotiating position in that situation? So we end up with overspends just to stand still. But it is all deferred, payments to RP deferred, bonus payments deferred.
So when the spending occurs and payback happens are two different times. That's what I think happened to us, but to others the loans were written off.

HJ still has the problem of other clubs using owners money in large quantities. The trust showed it could put out a team that could prosper, and this seasons budget has, as our league standing and Cup run has shown. That keeps crowds higher, consolidates the fan base, and this year pays off the overspend.

The challenge for HJ is to match the trust achievements, while reducing the costs by finding new opportunities. The new shop in Friars Walk is higher profile, and no doubt higher cost but as that is shared with the Dragon's, it is a small example of what he is looking to build upon.

We don't have the finances of the likes of Bradford or FGR or Salford, but we are above those teams, and looking to finish top half with a trust budget.

A lot of words to say that you don't know, you can't give any definitive answers.

I want to know, it would seem others want to know also,

And that is the point, none of us know because those who do know won't tell us - How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Can you definitively answer all of those questions? A simple yes or no response will do.

I have answered in detail what I think, but you are deaf to anything other than it has to be a physical quantity.

IMO they have spent it on maintaining and building the club, it is slow process, due to financial disadvantage, but we all hope the process will continue and progress under HJ.

Yes, you have answered in great detail, haven't you? Spoken with such confidence, it's almost like you know something we don't.

It's because I have looked at other clubs accounts, and particularly where details are sketchy or covered by non disclosure clauses linked to the parent owners accounts, and realised why, when debts are written off. Not for any other reason that you believe.

I look at all those premiership clubs that have visited RP. I look at the playoff finals, and higher finishes than the budget should expect. I look at the quality of the pitch, the electronic advertising, the positive relationship with others, that helps them also invest in things that might not be their own highest priority. I think £1 for £1 the trust has had an extraordinary period in control, and what's more I believe that we can do it again. Next time with a younger trust membership not influenced by the words Jerry Sherman, and what led to him being able to take control. That's what drives a desire to police the management, simply ignoring the achievements of what has been an incredible 8 years.

The trust can take over from HJ, it is capable of further success, we don't need to gamble on future owners, we just need to believe in our ability to deliver that future.

If all people see the trust for, is a way of getting priority tickets, and policing owners when all the real stuff will be hidden anyway, then frankly why bother continuing with it?

I don't see what the timing of the losses matters. Bottom line is it was lost and the club posted upbeat, positive press releases talking about profits being made until the bank account was empty.

If it wasn't done deliberately, then it's stupidity. If we knew what was going on, then it's lies.

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 11:31 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 11:22 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 10:26 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:59 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:14 am

Amberexile wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:48 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:36 am

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 9:44 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 28th, 2024, 8:45 pm

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 12:13 pm

Yes the accountants did back up the facts published in the accounts.
That is why they remained unchanged and still show an audited loss of £1.2 million.

So the question that you cannot answer remains. What causef that loss to occur?

I would have thought that was obvious lol,

Go on then answer. How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Covid was a massive problem, but for business it was an opportunity to get low interest loans with few questions asked. That's what we were competing with, and clubs with owners who could take advantage did. Our owner was the trust membership, how do you join the party without a company?
So others are spending large amounts and offering our better players contacts. So what happens to our negotiating position in that situation? So we end up with overspends just to stand still. But it is all deferred, payments to RP deferred, bonus payments deferred.
So when the spending occurs and payback happens are two different times. That's what I think happened to us, but to others the loans were written off.

HJ still has the problem of other clubs using owners money in large quantities. The trust showed it could put out a team that could prosper, and this seasons budget has, as our league standing and Cup run has shown. That keeps crowds higher, consolidates the fan base, and this year pays off the overspend.

The challenge for HJ is to match the trust achievements, while reducing the costs by finding new opportunities. The new shop in Friars Walk is higher profile, and no doubt higher cost but as that is shared with the Dragon's, it is a small example of what he is looking to build upon.

We don't have the finances of the likes of Bradford or FGR or Salford, but we are above those teams, and looking to finish top half with a trust budget.

A lot of words to say that you don't know, you can't give any definitive answers.

I want to know, it would seem others want to know also,

And that is the point, none of us know because those who do know won't tell us - How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Can you definitively answer all of those questions? A simple yes or no response will do.

I have answered in detail what I think, but you are deaf to anything other than it has to be a physical quantity.

IMO they have spent it on maintaining and building the club, it is slow process, due to financial disadvantage, but we all hope the process will continue and progress under HJ.

Yes, you have answered in great detail, haven't you? Spoken with such confidence, it's almost like you know something we don't.

It's because I have looked at other clubs accounts, and particularly where details are sketchy or covered by non disclosure clauses linked to the parent owners accounts, and realised why, when debts are written off. Not for any other reason that you believe.

I look at all those premiership clubs that have visited RP. I look at the playoff finals, and higher finishes than the budget should expect. I look at the quality of the pitch, the electronic advertising, the positive relationship with others, that helps them also invest in things that might not be their own highest priority. I think £1 for £1 the trust has had an extraordinary period in control, and what's more I believe that we can do it again. Next time with a younger trust membership not influenced by the words Jerry Sherman, and what led to him being able to take control. That's what drives a desire to police the management, simply ignoring the achievements of what has been an incredible 8 years.

The trust can take over from HJ, it is capable of further success, we don't need to gamble on future owners, we just need to believe in our ability to deliver that future.

If all people see the trust for, is a way of getting priority tickets, and policing owners when all the real stuff will be hidden anyway, then frankly why bother continuing with it?

I don't see what the timing of the losses matters. Bottom line is it was lost and the club posted upbeat, positive press releases talking about profits being made until the bank account was empty.

If it wasn't done deliberately, then it's stupidity. If we knew what was going on, then it's lies.

The bank account was never empty, because all clubs knew that windfall cash could be spent on things that other cash couldn't, and had to be prioritised. Taking out loans to make sure that windfall cash isn't spent on day to day items is the key.

A Trust run club doesn't have the ability to simply get loan money in the same way as a say a £100 million income business does, and so had to find ways to defer payments due, until the income provided for it, while maintaining cash in the windfall account.

It's all explained in the Carlisle accounts, but you can see the process elsewhere.

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 12:32 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 11:31 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 11:22 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 10:26 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:59 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:14 am

Amberexile wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:48 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:36 am

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 9:44 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 28th, 2024, 8:45 pm

I would have thought that was obvious lol,

Go on then answer. How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Covid was a massive problem, but for business it was an opportunity to get low interest loans with few questions asked. That's what we were competing with, and clubs with owners who could take advantage did. Our owner was the trust membership, how do you join the party without a company?
So others are spending large amounts and offering our better players contacts. So what happens to our negotiating position in that situation? So we end up with overspends just to stand still. But it is all deferred, payments to RP deferred, bonus payments deferred.
So when the spending occurs and payback happens are two different times. That's what I think happened to us, but to others the loans were written off.

HJ still has the problem of other clubs using owners money in large quantities. The trust showed it could put out a team that could prosper, and this seasons budget has, as our league standing and Cup run has shown. That keeps crowds higher, consolidates the fan base, and this year pays off the overspend.

The challenge for HJ is to match the trust achievements, while reducing the costs by finding new opportunities. The new shop in Friars Walk is higher profile, and no doubt higher cost but as that is shared with the Dragon's, it is a small example of what he is looking to build upon.

We don't have the finances of the likes of Bradford or FGR or Salford, but we are above those teams, and looking to finish top half with a trust budget.

A lot of words to say that you don't know, you can't give any definitive answers.

I want to know, it would seem others want to know also,

And that is the point, none of us know because those who do know won't tell us - How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Can you definitively answer all of those questions? A simple yes or no response will do.

I have answered in detail what I think, but you are deaf to anything other than it has to be a physical quantity.

IMO they have spent it on maintaining and building the club, it is slow process, due to financial disadvantage, but we all hope the process will continue and progress under HJ.

Yes, you have answered in great detail, haven't you? Spoken with such confidence, it's almost like you know something we don't.

It's because I have looked at other clubs accounts, and particularly where details are sketchy or covered by non disclosure clauses linked to the parent owners accounts, and realised why, when debts are written off. Not for any other reason that you believe.

I look at all those premiership clubs that have visited RP. I look at the playoff finals, and higher finishes than the budget should expect. I look at the quality of the pitch, the electronic advertising, the positive relationship with others, that helps them also invest in things that might not be their own highest priority. I think £1 for £1 the trust has had an extraordinary period in control, and what's more I believe that we can do it again. Next time with a younger trust membership not influenced by the words Jerry Sherman, and what led to him being able to take control. That's what drives a desire to police the management, simply ignoring the achievements of what has been an incredible 8 years.

The trust can take over from HJ, it is capable of further success, we don't need to gamble on future owners, we just need to believe in our ability to deliver that future.

If all people see the trust for, is a way of getting priority tickets, and policing owners when all the real stuff will be hidden anyway, then frankly why bother continuing with it?

I don't see what the timing of the losses matters. Bottom line is it was lost and the club posted upbeat, positive press releases talking about profits being made until the bank account was empty.

If it wasn't done deliberately, then it's stupidity. If we knew what was going on, then it's lies.

The bank account was never empty, because all clubs knew that windfall cash could be spent on things that other cash couldn't, and had to be prioritised. Taking out loans to make sure that windfall cash isn't spent on day to day items is the key.

A Trust run club doesn't have the ability to simply get loan money in the same way as a say a £100 million income business does, and so had to find ways to defer payments due, until the income provided for it, while maintaining cash in the windfall account.

It's all explained in the Carlisle accounts, but you can see the process elsewhere.

So we kicked the can down the road whilst posting news to members that we were making money?

Misleading rather than stupid then.

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 1:01 pm

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 12:32 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 11:31 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 11:22 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 10:26 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:59 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:14 am

Amberexile wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:48 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:36 am

Amberexile wrote: January 28th, 2024, 9:44 pm

Go on then answer. How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Covid was a massive problem, but for business it was an opportunity to get low interest loans with few questions asked. That's what we were competing with, and clubs with owners who could take advantage did. Our owner was the trust membership, how do you join the party without a company?
So others are spending large amounts and offering our better players contacts. So what happens to our negotiating position in that situation? So we end up with overspends just to stand still. But it is all deferred, payments to RP deferred, bonus payments deferred.
So when the spending occurs and payback happens are two different times. That's what I think happened to us, but to others the loans were written off.

HJ still has the problem of other clubs using owners money in large quantities. The trust showed it could put out a team that could prosper, and this seasons budget has, as our league standing and Cup run has shown. That keeps crowds higher, consolidates the fan base, and this year pays off the overspend.

The challenge for HJ is to match the trust achievements, while reducing the costs by finding new opportunities. The new shop in Friars Walk is higher profile, and no doubt higher cost but as that is shared with the Dragon's, it is a small example of what he is looking to build upon.

We don't have the finances of the likes of Bradford or FGR or Salford, but we are above those teams, and looking to finish top half with a trust budget.

A lot of words to say that you don't know, you can't give any definitive answers.

I want to know, it would seem others want to know also,

And that is the point, none of us know because those who do know won't tell us - How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Can you definitively answer all of those questions? A simple yes or no response will do.

I have answered in detail what I think, but you are deaf to anything other than it has to be a physical quantity.

IMO they have spent it on maintaining and building the club, it is slow process, due to financial disadvantage, but we all hope the process will continue and progress under HJ.

Yes, you have answered in great detail, haven't you? Spoken with such confidence, it's almost like you know something we don't.

It's because I have looked at other clubs accounts, and particularly where details are sketchy or covered by non disclosure clauses linked to the parent owners accounts, and realised why, when debts are written off. Not for any other reason that you believe.

I look at all those premiership clubs that have visited RP. I look at the playoff finals, and higher finishes than the budget should expect. I look at the quality of the pitch, the electronic advertising, the positive relationship with others, that helps them also invest in things that might not be their own highest priority. I think £1 for £1 the trust has had an extraordinary period in control, and what's more I believe that we can do it again. Next time with a younger trust membership not influenced by the words Jerry Sherman, and what led to him being able to take control. That's what drives a desire to police the management, simply ignoring the achievements of what has been an incredible 8 years.

The trust can take over from HJ, it is capable of further success, we don't need to gamble on future owners, we just need to believe in our ability to deliver that future.

If all people see the trust for, is a way of getting priority tickets, and policing owners when all the real stuff will be hidden anyway, then frankly why bother continuing with it?

I don't see what the timing of the losses matters. Bottom line is it was lost and the club posted upbeat, positive press releases talking about profits being made until the bank account was empty.

If it wasn't done deliberately, then it's stupidity. If we knew what was going on, then it's lies.

The bank account was never empty, because all clubs knew that windfall cash could be spent on things that other cash couldn't, and had to be prioritised. Taking out loans to make sure that windfall cash isn't spent on day to day items is the key.

A Trust run club doesn't have the ability to simply get loan money in the same way as a say a £100 million income business does, and so had to find ways to defer payments due, until the income provided for it, while maintaining cash in the windfall account.

It's all explained in the Carlisle accounts, but you can see the process elsewhere.

So we kicked the can down the road whilst posting news to members that we were making money?

Misleading rather than stupid then.

I depends on what promises were made in difficult times and subsequently not delivered.

RP had a covid centre on the cabbage patch for the best part of a year. We know that other centres were on WRU land and benefited from much higher rentals than normal due to the circumstances.

As a guess the rental would have covered the annual £800k loss that RP made. But what if the WRU said RP keeps making this loss year upon year, and are showing no interest in repaying, so why should we give you the rental due to you?

Why would that effect us? Well we rent from RP as well so in the heat of getting things sorted, it had been verbally agreed that covid cash might at some point wipe out debts that occurred as a result of covid, that promise would impact on us later down the line.

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 1:23 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 1:01 pm

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 12:32 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 11:31 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 11:22 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 10:26 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:59 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:14 am

Amberexile wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:48 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:36 am

Covid was a massive problem, but for business it was an opportunity to get low interest loans with few questions asked. That's what we were competing with, and clubs with owners who could take advantage did. Our owner was the trust membership, how do you join the party without a company?
So others are spending large amounts and offering our better players contacts. So what happens to our negotiating position in that situation? So we end up with overspends just to stand still. But it is all deferred, payments to RP deferred, bonus payments deferred.
So when the spending occurs and payback happens are two different times. That's what I think happened to us, but to others the loans were written off.

HJ still has the problem of other clubs using owners money in large quantities. The trust showed it could put out a team that could prosper, and this seasons budget has, as our league standing and Cup run has shown. That keeps crowds higher, consolidates the fan base, and this year pays off the overspend.

The challenge for HJ is to match the trust achievements, while reducing the costs by finding new opportunities. The new shop in Friars Walk is higher profile, and no doubt higher cost but as that is shared with the Dragon's, it is a small example of what he is looking to build upon.

We don't have the finances of the likes of Bradford or FGR or Salford, but we are above those teams, and looking to finish top half with a trust budget.

A lot of words to say that you don't know, you can't give any definitive answers.

I want to know, it would seem others want to know also,

And that is the point, none of us know because those who do know won't tell us - How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Can you definitively answer all of those questions? A simple yes or no response will do.

I have answered in detail what I think, but you are deaf to anything other than it has to be a physical quantity.

IMO they have spent it on maintaining and building the club, it is slow process, due to financial disadvantage, but we all hope the process will continue and progress under HJ.

Yes, you have answered in great detail, haven't you? Spoken with such confidence, it's almost like you know something we don't.

It's because I have looked at other clubs accounts, and particularly where details are sketchy or covered by non disclosure clauses linked to the parent owners accounts, and realised why, when debts are written off. Not for any other reason that you believe.

I look at all those premiership clubs that have visited RP. I look at the playoff finals, and higher finishes than the budget should expect. I look at the quality of the pitch, the electronic advertising, the positive relationship with others, that helps them also invest in things that might not be their own highest priority. I think £1 for £1 the trust has had an extraordinary period in control, and what's more I believe that we can do it again. Next time with a younger trust membership not influenced by the words Jerry Sherman, and what led to him being able to take control. That's what drives a desire to police the management, simply ignoring the achievements of what has been an incredible 8 years.

The trust can take over from HJ, it is capable of further success, we don't need to gamble on future owners, we just need to believe in our ability to deliver that future.

If all people see the trust for, is a way of getting priority tickets, and policing owners when all the real stuff will be hidden anyway, then frankly why bother continuing with it?

I don't see what the timing of the losses matters. Bottom line is it was lost and the club posted upbeat, positive press releases talking about profits being made until the bank account was empty.

If it wasn't done deliberately, then it's stupidity. If we knew what was going on, then it's lies.

The bank account was never empty, because all clubs knew that windfall cash could be spent on things that other cash couldn't, and had to be prioritised. Taking out loans to make sure that windfall cash isn't spent on day to day items is the key.

A Trust run club doesn't have the ability to simply get loan money in the same way as a say a £100 million income business does, and so had to find ways to defer payments due, until the income provided for it, while maintaining cash in the windfall account.

It's all explained in the Carlisle accounts, but you can see the process elsewhere.

So we kicked the can down the road whilst posting news to members that we were making money?

Misleading rather than stupid then.

I depends on what promises were made in difficult times and subsequently not delivered.

RP had a covid centre on the cabbage patch for the best part of a year. We know that other centres were on WRU land and benefited from much higher rentals than normal due to the circumstances.

As a guess the rental would have covered the annual £800k loss that RP made. But what if the WRU said RP keeps making this loss year upon year, and are showing no interest in repaying, so why should we give you the rental due to you?

Why would that effect us? Well we rent from RP as well so in the heat of getting things sorted, it had been verbally agreed that covid cash might at some point wipe out debts that occurred as a result of covid, that promise would impact on us later down the line.

This is the issue, nobody has a clue what happened. We were just told after it had all been lost that we were up shit creek without a paddle, and no attempt at explaining it away has been made. This is what starts the rumour mill turning.

I'm guessing most people will think it doesn't matter now, but even I am starting to think there might be some truth in some of the "nonsense" I've heard spouted, because surely any reasonable fan would understand if the club lost money due to keeping the club afloat during COVID, but no explanation has been given. Therefore, why not just say what went on if there's nothing untoward to reveal?

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 2:42 pm

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 1:23 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 1:01 pm

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 12:32 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 11:31 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 11:22 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 10:26 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:59 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:14 am

Amberexile wrote: January 29th, 2024, 8:48 am

A lot of words to say that you don't know, you can't give any definitive answers.

I want to know, it would seem others want to know also,

And that is the point, none of us know because those who do know won't tell us - How did we lose that money? What did we spend the £1,2million on? What assets do we have to show for it? What steps have we taken to ensure it doesn't happen again?

Can you definitively answer all of those questions? A simple yes or no response will do.

I have answered in detail what I think, but you are deaf to anything other than it has to be a physical quantity.

IMO they have spent it on maintaining and building the club, it is slow process, due to financial disadvantage, but we all hope the process will continue and progress under HJ.

Yes, you have answered in great detail, haven't you? Spoken with such confidence, it's almost like you know something we don't.

It's because I have looked at other clubs accounts, and particularly where details are sketchy or covered by non disclosure clauses linked to the parent owners accounts, and realised why, when debts are written off. Not for any other reason that you believe.

I look at all those premiership clubs that have visited RP. I look at the playoff finals, and higher finishes than the budget should expect. I look at the quality of the pitch, the electronic advertising, the positive relationship with others, that helps them also invest in things that might not be their own highest priority. I think £1 for £1 the trust has had an extraordinary period in control, and what's more I believe that we can do it again. Next time with a younger trust membership not influenced by the words Jerry Sherman, and what led to him being able to take control. That's what drives a desire to police the management, simply ignoring the achievements of what has been an incredible 8 years.

The trust can take over from HJ, it is capable of further success, we don't need to gamble on future owners, we just need to believe in our ability to deliver that future.

If all people see the trust for, is a way of getting priority tickets, and policing owners when all the real stuff will be hidden anyway, then frankly why bother continuing with it?

I don't see what the timing of the losses matters. Bottom line is it was lost and the club posted upbeat, positive press releases talking about profits being made until the bank account was empty.

If it wasn't done deliberately, then it's stupidity. If we knew what was going on, then it's lies.

The bank account was never empty, because all clubs knew that windfall cash could be spent on things that other cash couldn't, and had to be prioritised. Taking out loans to make sure that windfall cash isn't spent on day to day items is the key.

A Trust run club doesn't have the ability to simply get loan money in the same way as a say a £100 million income business does, and so had to find ways to defer payments due, until the income provided for it, while maintaining cash in the windfall account.

It's all explained in the Carlisle accounts, but you can see the process elsewhere.

So we kicked the can down the road whilst posting news to members that we were making money?

Misleading rather than stupid then.

I depends on what promises were made in difficult times and subsequently not delivered.

RP had a covid centre on the cabbage patch for the best part of a year. We know that other centres were on WRU land and benefited from much higher rentals than normal due to the circumstances.

As a guess the rental would have covered the annual £800k loss that RP made. But what if the WRU said RP keeps making this loss year upon year, and are showing no interest in repaying, so why should we give you the rental due to you?

Why would that effect us? Well we rent from RP as well so in the heat of getting things sorted, it had been verbally agreed that covid cash might at some point wipe out debts that occurred as a result of covid, that promise would impact on us later down the line.

This is the issue, nobody has a clue what happened. We were just told after it had all been lost that we were up shit creek without a paddle, and no attempt at explaining it away has been made. This is what starts the rumour mill turning.

I'm guessing most people will think it doesn't matter now, but even I am starting to think there might be some truth in some of the "nonsense" I've heard spouted, because surely any reasonable fan would understand if the club lost money due to keeping the club afloat during COVID, but no explanation has been given. Therefore, why not just say what went on if there's nothing untoward to reveal?

If we had control over everything financially, then we have control over information provided.

However the regional rugby clubs are still arguing as to why they need to pay back covid based loans, particularly as the clubs nearly all had covid centres on their sites. It is likely therefore that any verbal promises that ended up being broken, were made above the level of the WRU.

That could be local, regional or national, but promises that don't materialise, end up impacting financial decisions taken by linked parties years before.

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 2:56 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 2:42 pm

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 1:23 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 1:01 pm

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 12:32 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 11:31 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 11:22 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 10:26 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:59 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:14 am

I have answered in detail what I think, but you are deaf to anything other than it has to be a physical quantity.

IMO they have spent it on maintaining and building the club, it is slow process, due to financial disadvantage, but we all hope the process will continue and progress under HJ.

Yes, you have answered in great detail, haven't you? Spoken with such confidence, it's almost like you know something we don't.

It's because I have looked at other clubs accounts, and particularly where details are sketchy or covered by non disclosure clauses linked to the parent owners accounts, and realised why, when debts are written off. Not for any other reason that you believe.

I look at all those premiership clubs that have visited RP. I look at the playoff finals, and higher finishes than the budget should expect. I look at the quality of the pitch, the electronic advertising, the positive relationship with others, that helps them also invest in things that might not be their own highest priority. I think £1 for £1 the trust has had an extraordinary period in control, and what's more I believe that we can do it again. Next time with a younger trust membership not influenced by the words Jerry Sherman, and what led to him being able to take control. That's what drives a desire to police the management, simply ignoring the achievements of what has been an incredible 8 years.

The trust can take over from HJ, it is capable of further success, we don't need to gamble on future owners, we just need to believe in our ability to deliver that future.

If all people see the trust for, is a way of getting priority tickets, and policing owners when all the real stuff will be hidden anyway, then frankly why bother continuing with it?

I don't see what the timing of the losses matters. Bottom line is it was lost and the club posted upbeat, positive press releases talking about profits being made until the bank account was empty.

If it wasn't done deliberately, then it's stupidity. If we knew what was going on, then it's lies.

The bank account was never empty, because all clubs knew that windfall cash could be spent on things that other cash couldn't, and had to be prioritised. Taking out loans to make sure that windfall cash isn't spent on day to day items is the key.

A Trust run club doesn't have the ability to simply get loan money in the same way as a say a £100 million income business does, and so had to find ways to defer payments due, until the income provided for it, while maintaining cash in the windfall account.

It's all explained in the Carlisle accounts, but you can see the process elsewhere.

So we kicked the can down the road whilst posting news to members that we were making money?

Misleading rather than stupid then.

I depends on what promises were made in difficult times and subsequently not delivered.

RP had a covid centre on the cabbage patch for the best part of a year. We know that other centres were on WRU land and benefited from much higher rentals than normal due to the circumstances.

As a guess the rental would have covered the annual £800k loss that RP made. But what if the WRU said RP keeps making this loss year upon year, and are showing no interest in repaying, so why should we give you the rental due to you?

Why would that effect us? Well we rent from RP as well so in the heat of getting things sorted, it had been verbally agreed that covid cash might at some point wipe out debts that occurred as a result of covid, that promise would impact on us later down the line.

This is the issue, nobody has a clue what happened. We were just told after it had all been lost that we were up shit creek without a paddle, and no attempt at explaining it away has been made. This is what starts the rumour mill turning.

I'm guessing most people will think it doesn't matter now, but even I am starting to think there might be some truth in some of the "nonsense" I've heard spouted, because surely any reasonable fan would understand if the club lost money due to keeping the club afloat during COVID, but no explanation has been given. Therefore, why not just say what went on if there's nothing untoward to reveal?

If we had control over everything financially, then we have control over information provided.

However the regional rugby clubs are still arguing as to why they need to pay back covid based loans, particularly as the clubs nearly all had covid centres on their sites. It is likely therefore that any verbal promises that ended up being broken, were made above the level of the WRU.

That could be local, regional or national, but promises that don't materialise, end up impacting financial decisions taken by linked parties years before.

So the majority shareholders weren't deemed worthy of being kept informed of this? I wonder if HJ will be notified of things like this by his Directors and staff now he is the majority shareholder?

Serial apologist, your obvious links to the trust board are painfully obvious and you're doing them more harm than good with your constant defending of them.

I was never particularly critical until about a year ago, I thought they'd done a good job, but when moles like you are used to try and influence public opinion, it adds more fuel to the fire where rumours are concerned.

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 2:56 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 2:42 pm

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 1:23 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 1:01 pm

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 12:32 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 11:31 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 11:22 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 10:26 am

rncfc wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:59 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: January 29th, 2024, 9:14 am

I have answered in detail what I think, but you are deaf to anything other than it has to be a physical quantity.

IMO they have spent it on maintaining and building the club, it is slow process, due to financial disadvantage, but we all hope the process will continue and progress under HJ.

Yes, you have answered in great detail, haven't you? Spoken with such confidence, it's almost like you know something we don't.

It's because I have looked at other clubs accounts, and particularly where details are sketchy or covered by non disclosure clauses linked to the parent owners accounts, and realised why, when debts are written off. Not for any other reason that you believe.

I look at all those premiership clubs that have visited RP. I look at the playoff finals, and higher finishes than the budget should expect. I look at the quality of the pitch, the electronic advertising, the positive relationship with others, that helps them also invest in things that might not be their own highest priority. I think £1 for £1 the trust has had an extraordinary period in control, and what's more I believe that we can do it again. Next time with a younger trust membership not influenced by the words Jerry Sherman, and what led to him being able to take control. That's what drives a desire to police the management, simply ignoring the achievements of what has been an incredible 8 years.

The trust can take over from HJ, it is capable of further success, we don't need to gamble on future owners, we just need to believe in our ability to deliver that future.

If all people see the trust for, is a way of getting priority tickets, and policing owners when all the real stuff will be hidden anyway, then frankly why bother continuing with it?

I don't see what the timing of the losses matters. Bottom line is it was lost and the club posted upbeat, positive press releases talking about profits being made until the bank account was empty.

If it wasn't done deliberately, then it's stupidity. If we knew what was going on, then it's lies.

The bank account was never empty, because all clubs knew that windfall cash could be spent on things that other cash couldn't, and had to be prioritised. Taking out loans to make sure that windfall cash isn't spent on day to day items is the key.

A Trust run club doesn't have the ability to simply get loan money in the same way as a say a £100 million income business does, and so had to find ways to defer payments due, until the income provided for it, while maintaining cash in the windfall account.

It's all explained in the Carlisle accounts, but you can see the process elsewhere.

So we kicked the can down the road whilst posting news to members that we were making money?

Misleading rather than stupid then.

I depends on what promises were made in difficult times and subsequently not delivered.

RP had a covid centre on the cabbage patch for the best part of a year. We know that other centres were on WRU land and benefited from much higher rentals than normal due to the circumstances.

As a guess the rental would have covered the annual £800k loss that RP made. But what if the WRU said RP keeps making this loss year upon year, and are showing no interest in repaying, so why should we give you the rental due to you?

Why would that effect us? Well we rent from RP as well so in the heat of getting things sorted, it had been verbally agreed that covid cash might at some point wipe out debts that occurred as a result of covid, that promise would impact on us later down the line.

This is the issue, nobody has a clue what happened. We were just told after it had all been lost that we were up shit creek without a paddle, and no attempt at explaining it away has been made. This is what starts the rumour mill turning.

I'm guessing most people will think it doesn't matter now, but even I am starting to think there might be some truth in some of the "nonsense" I've heard spouted, because surely any reasonable fan would understand if the club lost money due to keeping the club afloat during COVID, but no explanation has been given. Therefore, why not just say what went on if there's nothing untoward to reveal?

If we had control over everything financially, then we have control over information provided.

However the regional rugby clubs are still arguing as to why they need to pay back covid based loans, particularly as the clubs nearly all had covid centres on their sites. It is likely therefore that any verbal promises that ended up being broken, were made above the level of the WRU.

That could be local, regional or national, but promises that don't materialise, end up impacting financial decisions taken by linked parties years before.

So the majority shareholders weren't deemed worthy of being kept informed of this? I wonder if HJ will be notified of things like this by his Directors and staff now he is the majority shareholder?

Serial apologist, your obvious links to the trust board are painfully obvious and you're doing them more harm than good with your constant defending of them.

I was never particularly critical until about a year ago, I thought they'd done a good job, but when moles like you are used to try and influence public opinion, it adds more fuel to the fire where rumours are concerned.