Stan, I'm merely pointing out the practicalities. No footballer who has dropped down the leagues in this context is going to worry about the club having an option to retain his services (obviously while still paying him) for a second year.

Welcome to the club Louis

George Street-Bridge wrote:Stan, I'm merely pointing out the practicalities. No footballer who has dropped down the leagues in this context is going to worry about the club having an option to retain his services (obviously while still paying him) for a second year.

Let us say Mr Hall is earning £ 10,000 as what would once have been referred to as an apprentice. He has a one year contract. He is now asked to sign a form saying he will if Newport County wish to sign him at the end of the year commit to that. So far so good.

In the event the said Mr Hall turns out to be a superstar. So much so that Manchester United offer him a contract at the end of his year with Newport County. Not only this but a golden hello of £500,000.

At which point Newport County step in and say, Mr Hall has signed a document which clearly commits him to us, if you want him you'll have to pay us a transfer fee.

Now ask yourself why would any right minded individual sign such a document? Secondly even if he did, in my view the courts would not enforce it.

And lest you're thinking he probably won't turn out to be the new Pele, you're quite right. And at the end of his year Mr Hall will sign for whomsoever offers him the best deal.

If you want someone to commit you have to offer them commitment. To not realize that is not to understand Bosman.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

George Street-Bridge wrote:Stan, I'm merely pointing out the practicalities. No footballer who has dropped down the leagues in this context is going to worry about the club having an option to retain his services (obviously while still paying him) for a second year.

Let us say Mr Hall is earning £ 10,000 as what would once have been referred to as an apprentice. He has a one year contract. He is now asked to sign a form saying he will if Newport County wish to sign him at the end of the year commit to that. So far so good.

In the event the said Mr Hall turns out to be a superstar. So much so that Manchester United offer him a contract at the end of his year with Newport County. Not only this but a golden hello of £500,000.

At which point Newport County step in and say, Mr Hall has signed a document which clearly commits him to us, if you want him you'll have to pay us a transfer fee.

Now ask yourself why would any right minded individual sign such a document? Secondly even if he did, in my view the courts would not enforce it.

And lest you're thinking he probably won't turn out to be the new Pele, you're quite right. And at the end of his year Mr Hall will sign for whomsoever offers him the best deal.

If you want someone to commit you have to offer them commitment. To not realize that is not to understand Bosman.

People do sign these contracts regularly in footballing circles. There must be a reason why.

If you're trying to find your way in the professional game, maybe it is more appealing to know that there's a carrot being dangled if you meet certain targets. I think some of these contracts are subject to making a certain amount of appearances, for example. So, if he signed a deal like that and played, let's say, 15 first team games in his first year, then the second year option is exercised.

I'd go for something like that if I was young, hungry, rising through the leagues and had a point to prove.

rncfc wrote:

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

George Street-Bridge wrote:Stan, I'm merely pointing out the practicalities. No footballer who has dropped down the leagues in this context is going to worry about the club having an option to retain his services (obviously while still paying him) for a second year.

Let us say Mr Hall is earning £ 10,000 as what would once have been referred to as an apprentice. He has a one year contract. He is now asked to sign a form saying he will if Newport County wish to sign him at the end of the year commit to that. So far so good.

In the event the said Mr Hall turns out to be a superstar. So much so that Manchester United offer him a contract at the end of his year with Newport County. Not only this but a golden hello of £500,000.

At which point Newport County step in and say, Mr Hall has signed a document which clearly commits him to us, if you want him you'll have to pay us a transfer fee.

Now ask yourself why would any right minded individual sign such a document? Secondly even if he did, in my view the courts would not enforce it.

And lest you're thinking he probably won't turn out to be the new Pele, you're quite right. And at the end of his year Mr Hall will sign for whomsoever offers him the best deal.

If you want someone to commit you have to offer them commitment. To not realize that is not to understand Bosman.

People do sign these contracts regularly in footballing circles. There must be a reason why.

If you're trying to find your way in the professional game, maybe it is more appealing to know that there's a carrot being dangled if you meet certain targets. I think some of these contracts are subject to making a certain amount of appearances, for example. So, if he signed a deal like that and played, let's say, 15 first team games in his first year, then the second year option is exercised.

I'd go for something like that if I was young, hungry, rising through the leagues and had a point to prove.

You'll have seen the contracts no doubt?

No, which is why I used language such as "for example" and "maybe".

Do keep up at the back.

rncfc wrote:
People do sign these contracts regularly in footballing circles. There must be a reason why.

.

Really?

It obviously works in the real world of L2 football, it's not uncommon for club websites to report players signing single-year contracts "with an option".

George Street-Bridge wrote:It obviously works in the real world of L2 football, it's not uncommon for club websites to report players signing single-year contracts "with an option".

There are two points there George. Firstly, in the case of Mr Hall he seems to have signed a contract without an option.

Secondly what does 'with an option' mean? Can you think of one instance of a player in dispute for not signing to a further contract. It may very well be the case that such a statement is merely an aspiration. Further, although since my day I believe the Unfair Contract Terms Act of 1978 has been replaced, I would be amazed if whatever piece of legislation has replaced it doesn't contain the same provisions. In short a contract clause which stated that one party have the right to impose a new contract, whilst offering nothing in return, would in my view have no real possibility of being enforced by any court.

Now of course I could be wrong. If a contract lawyer were to come on here and correct me I would research it and if I were wrong correct my view. I don't think I am wrong but I wasn't a contract lawyer and I am five years retired. However legal precedent tends to change slowly, if at all. And I certainly wouldn't put any store in meaningless language on club websites.

The difference between an average lawyer/barrister and the top flight versions is that the former tells you what the law prevents you doing - the latter regularly finds a way to achieve your objectives.

And for the record Stan yes I had extensive experience ( over thirty years ) before retiring of the latter, specifically with regard to high profile employment law cases .

I accept there maybe a need for a consideration but it doesn’t need to be an automatic second year .

You just need to be highly inventive within the law.

Surely Stan somebody of your high standing know the importance where possible of delivering the clients objectives.

I accept it is not always possible but in this case ingenuity should suffice,

Also note on BBC website Bristol Rovers have an option for a second year with their new striker.

I think a couple of forum members are in danger of over-complicating things here -

Louie Hall joins us and heads into our development squad, he’s obviously impressed enough during friendlies to warrant a contract, and this contract is a fairly safe one for all parties given his age, and that he hasn’t ‘pulled up many trees’ during spells at his previous lower league clubs.

And let’s not forget that Louie gets more than just a wage here - he gets the opportunity to play at a pro club, under the eyes of full-time coaches and develop.

Welcome and good luck Louie

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

rncfc wrote:
People do sign these contracts regularly in footballing circles. There must be a reason why.

.

Really?

I've seen articles where "options" have been exercised, so it would appear on the face of things that people do sign these contracts, yes.

I don't have the time to play Courtroom with you, sadly. But if you still feel the need to play it yourself, why not start practising again? You'd at least be getting paid for your attention to detail then.

DPT wrote:The difference between an average lawyer/barrister and the top flight versions is that the former tells you what the law prevents you doing - the latter regularly finds a way to achieve your objectives.

And for the record Stan yes I had extensive experience ( over thirty years ) before retiring of the latter, specifically with regard to high profile employment law cases .

I accept there maybe a need for a consideration but it doesn’t need to be an automatic second year .

You just need to be highly inventive within the law.

Surely Stan somebody of your high standing know the importance where possible of delivering the clients objectives.

I accept it is not always possible but in this case ingenuity should suffice,

Also note on BBC website Bristol Rovers have an option for a second year with their new striker.

As I said, my opinion is that a court is extremely unlikely to uphold such a clause.

As for my clients objectives my duty is of course to try to secure my clients objective. But it is also to counsel. Let me give you a not unusual scenario.

I want to plead not guilty.

Well of course you do. However there is cctv of you throwing a brick through the window, on the broken glass your DNA is all over the place. You have a cut on your arm and the stolen property was found in your garden shed.

Plead not guilty and on conviction you'll get two years. Plead guilty and say sorry and I know this judge. You'll get nine months. The choice my friend is yours.

Back in the context of Newport County and away from any need to reassure yourself by diving into legalese, it strikes me it takes pressure off a player who has slipped from Aston Villa youth to Oxford City if the club initially labels him as a development prospect.

George Street-Bridge wrote:Back in the context of Newport County and away from any need to reassure yourself by diving into legalese, it strikes me it takes pressure off a player who has slipped from Aston Villa youth to Oxford City if the club initially labels him as a development prospect.

As we'd say in the bar mess, I think it'll make f@ck all difference what the club initially label him.