George,

I have a friend living in Ireland who has a good job. Unfortunately during the crash of the 'Celtic Tiger' my friend lost his home. He now has to rent and has to pay out half his salary on rent and has no security of tenure. Landlords continually put up rents. My friend has many sleepless nights.

I know you believe that Newport County have leverage because the rugby need us. I disagree. Ask yourself this, if UTP's lottery numbers come up will the WRU go bust or even notice the loss of Newport County? Then ask if the WRU decide that Newport County can no longer use Rodney Parade, would County survive as a League club?

You can disagree with my analysis, but it isn't going to alter unless you can convince me by changing my answer to the questions above. I don't believe the WRU need Newport County to anything like as much as we need them.

DeePeeNCAFC wrote: November 7th, 2021, 10:44 am “The Expenditure therefore far outweigh's any rental income.“

Good argument but you’re probably guessing there.

The key advantage of being a tenant as you e said, is we get security of some sort. This hasn’t always been effective security in the past as our sport involves having a pitch we can pass on. Rodney Parade has been widely derided as the worst pitch in the league in recent years.

Plus, key is our grasp on that security is weakening as our tenancy runs out. We face being asked to leave, or sign a more expensive tenancy extension. We have no bargaining power, as a business we have no assets beyond cash in the bank: it would take a Hollywood-type investor with more money than sense to buy into our club, pay for a new ground and training facilities and move the club forward.

We really need to buy a plot of council land cheaply, secure a loan to build a small place we can call our own with a 4G facility next door we can train on and rent out.

Otherwise we face losing our club inside 10 years I feel.

Why do you feel that we face losing our club inside 10 years? It's a pretty big statement.

Consider the last time the football club owned it's ground. We were doing well on the pitch, playing in Europe. We then had to pay for development of the railway end of the ground as we were the landlord. So we were then purchasing the ground, running a better than average team, had costs related to Europe (it wasn't as lucrative in those days) and costs related to developing the railway end.
So expenditure everywhere, and how did that turn out in the 10 years since County had purchased Somerton Park?

That's what is actually the problem, ignoring what we have to persue a dream that let us down so badly. Why repeat history, is this what other clubs are doing? Do clubs that own their own ground, not go bust? Will owning a ground increase or decrease our expenditure? How does that reflect on our prospects of surviving or going bust?

As I mentioned previously, we are benefiting from our landlords expenditure, we know the pitch was upwards of a million pounds, and there have also been improvements all over the ground.

Are the Rugby unhappy with the situation they have found themselves in? They have no agreement to play at Rodney Parade at all.

County have an agreement which provides for priority of fixtures, as required by the football league. We can't have an actual lease, as that requires the tenant to have sole use of the stadium. But look around us, how many of our neighbouring clubs are sharing?

Bristol Rugby club used to own the Memorial Ground, it's now owned by Bristol Rovers and little or no investment has been made there since they took ownership. Have they progressed on the pitch as a result of diverting resources away from the ground?
Bristol Rugby have progressed however, and now benefit from playing at Ashton Gate which has seen enormous investment. So who has benefited most Bristol Rovers or Bristol Rugby?

Lots of questions sorry, but it is difficult to explain my reasoning without them.

Stan A. Einstein wrote: November 7th, 2021, 11:44 am George,

I have a friend living in Ireland who has a good job. Unfortunately during the crash of the 'Celtic Tiger' my friend lost his home. He now has to rent and has to pay out half his salary on rent and has no security of tenure. Landlords continually put up rents. My friend has many sleepless nights.

I know you believe that Newport County have leverage because the rugby need us. I disagree. Ask yourself this, if UTP's lottery numbers come up will the WRU go bust or even notice the loss of Newport County? Then ask if the WRU decide that Newport County can no longer use Rodney Parade, would County survive as a League club?

You can disagree with my analysis, but it isn't going to alter unless you can convince me by changing my answer to the questions above. I don't believe the WRU need Newport County to anything like as much as we need them.

Your poll questions should have been :

1). Do you wish County to keep being prudent, and benefit from our landlords expenditure in purchasing the Ground, the maintenance of it, and the development costs.

2). Do you wish that the County be reckless and spend money that is not required, on land, ground construction, maintenance, and development of a ground, as we did when County went bust?

Stan A. Einstein wrote: November 7th, 2021, 11:44 am George,

I have a friend living in Ireland who has a good job. Unfortunately during the crash of the 'Celtic Tiger' my friend lost his home. He now has to rent and has to pay out half his salary on rent and has no security of tenure. Landlords continually put up rents. My friend has many sleepless nights.

I know you believe that Newport County have leverage because the rugby need us. I disagree. Ask yourself this, if UTP's lottery numbers come up will the WRU go bust or even notice the loss of Newport County? Then ask if the WRU decide that Newport County can no longer use Rodney Parade, would County survive as a League club?

You can disagree with my analysis, but it isn't going to alter unless you can convince me by changing my answer to the questions above. I don't believe the WRU need Newport County to anything like as much as we need them.

Strikes me that the first line here demonstrates the risk of owning your own home (in our case a stadium), and the implications should you be unable to continue to pay for it. The crash of the Celtic Tiger would be comparable to us being relegated from the football league.

In this case, reverting to rental might be seen as a dead expense, but is providing a home as opposed to being out on the street, but holding down a job whilst living on the street is as difficult as trying to run a football club without a stadium to play out of.....

Lets also remember that the UK is virtually unique in its obsession with property ownership, whereas the rest of the world seems to get along relatively well without doing so.

Torquay Exile wrote: November 6th, 2021, 11:06 pm

Amberexile wrote: October 30th, 2021, 1:33 am

Torquay Exile wrote: October 29th, 2021, 9:22 pm

Amberexile wrote: October 29th, 2021, 7:59 pm The accounts that are published for the club are more comprehensive than for many clubs at our level in that they contain profit and loss information as well as balance sheet.

The P&Ls show that Turnover for the last 3 years that have been published were -

2018 - £3,223,377
2019 - £4,803.488
2020 - £3,647,606

The Balance Sheet shows that as at 30th June 2020, cash at bank and in hand was £1,334,691.

It will be interesting to see how the 2021 figures stack up against these after a full season of no crowds, furlough scheme and other government grants/loans and increased ifollow availability during the 2020/21 season.

It would be nice to know what have they spent £2,312,915 on?

They spent £3,843,675.

I hope you don't mind me asking you. How did you come to the figure of £3,843,675?

I lifted it straight out of the published accounts

Amberexile wrote: November 7th, 2021, 8:35 pm

Torquay Exile wrote: November 6th, 2021, 11:06 pm

Amberexile wrote: October 30th, 2021, 1:33 am

Torquay Exile wrote: October 29th, 2021, 9:22 pm

Amberexile wrote: October 29th, 2021, 7:59 pm The accounts that are published for the club are more comprehensive than for many clubs at our level in that they contain profit and loss information as well as balance sheet.

The P&Ls show that Turnover for the last 3 years that have been published were -

2018 - £3,223,377
2019 - £4,803.488
2020 - £3,647,606

The Balance Sheet shows that as at 30th June 2020, cash at bank and in hand was £1,334,691.

It will be interesting to see how the 2021 figures stack up against these after a full season of no crowds, furlough scheme and other government grants/loans and increased ifollow availability during the 2020/21 season.

It would be nice to know what have they spent £2,312,915 on?

They spent £3,843,675.

I hope you don't mind me asking you. How did you come to the figure of £3,843,675?

I lifted it straight out of the published accounts

Clearly some do not read or understand the published accounts

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 7th, 2021, 11:01 pm

Amberexile wrote: November 7th, 2021, 8:35 pm

Torquay Exile wrote: November 6th, 2021, 11:06 pm

Amberexile wrote: October 30th, 2021, 1:33 am

Torquay Exile wrote: October 29th, 2021, 9:22 pm

Amberexile wrote: October 29th, 2021, 7:59 pm The accounts that are published for the club are more comprehensive than for many clubs at our level in that they contain profit and loss information as well as balance sheet.

The P&Ls show that Turnover for the last 3 years that have been published were -

2018 - £3,223,377
2019 - £4,803.488
2020 - £3,647,606

The Balance Sheet shows that as at 30th June 2020, cash at bank and in hand was £1,334,691.

It will be interesting to see how the 2021 figures stack up against these after a full season of no crowds, furlough scheme and other government grants/loans and increased ifollow availability during the 2020/21 season.

It would be nice to know what have they spent £2,312,915 on?

They spent £3,843,675.

I hope you don't mind me asking you. How did you come to the figure of £3,843,675?

I lifted it straight out of the published accounts

Clearly some do not read or understand the published accounts

So are you saying in 2020 we spent about £3,843,675 in one season or over three seasons?

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 7th, 2021, 11:01 pm

Amberexile wrote: November 7th, 2021, 8:35 pm

Torquay Exile wrote: November 6th, 2021, 11:06 pm

Amberexile wrote: October 30th, 2021, 1:33 am

Torquay Exile wrote: October 29th, 2021, 9:22 pm

Amberexile wrote: October 29th, 2021, 7:59 pm The accounts that are published for the club are more comprehensive than for many clubs at our level in that they contain profit and loss information as well as balance sheet.

The P&Ls show that Turnover for the last 3 years that have been published were -

2018 - £3,223,377
2019 - £4,803.488
2020 - £3,647,606

The Balance Sheet shows that as at 30th June 2020, cash at bank and in hand was £1,334,691.

It will be interesting to see how the 2021 figures stack up against these after a full season of no crowds, furlough scheme and other government grants/loans and increased ifollow availability during the 2020/21 season.

It would be nice to know what have they spent £2,312,915 on?

They spent £3,843,675.

I hope you don't mind me asking you. How did you come to the figure of £3,843,675?

I lifted it straight out of the published accounts

Clearly some do not read or understand the published accounts

Yet they continue to question financial figures when they are available. Then in another context when a poster asks a valid question, quote, ‘and you need to know because’.

Questioning and holding people to account is good. However, questioning can lead to cynicism, extreme cynicism is unhealthy and leads to those people that have certain types of conspiracies about anything and everything. The world has gone doolally.

pembsexile wrote: November 8th, 2021, 8:19 am

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 7th, 2021, 11:01 pm

Amberexile wrote: November 7th, 2021, 8:35 pm

Torquay Exile wrote: November 6th, 2021, 11:06 pm

Amberexile wrote: October 30th, 2021, 1:33 am

Torquay Exile wrote: October 29th, 2021, 9:22 pm

Amberexile wrote: October 29th, 2021, 7:59 pm The accounts that are published for the club are more comprehensive than for many clubs at our level in that they contain profit and loss information as well as balance sheet.

The P&Ls show that Turnover for the last 3 years that have been published were -

2018 - £3,223,377
2019 - £4,803.488
2020 - £3,647,606

The Balance Sheet shows that as at 30th June 2020, cash at bank and in hand was £1,334,691.

It will be interesting to see how the 2021 figures stack up against these after a full season of no crowds, furlough scheme and other government grants/loans and increased ifollow availability during the 2020/21 season.

It would be nice to know what have they spent £2,312,915 on?

They spent £3,843,675.

I hope you don't mind me asking you. How did you come to the figure of £3,843,675?

I lifted it straight out of the published accounts

Clearly some do not read or understand the published accounts

Yet they continue to question financial figures when they are available. Then in another context when a poster asks a valid question, quote, ‘and you need to know because’.

Questioning and holding people to account is good. However, questioning can lead to cynicism, extreme cynicism is unhealthy and leads to those people that have certain types of conspiracies about anything and everything. The world has gone doolally.

Sadly, I find your synopsis accurate.

Torquay Exile wrote: November 8th, 2021, 1:02 am

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 7th, 2021, 11:01 pm

Amberexile wrote: November 7th, 2021, 8:35 pm

Torquay Exile wrote: November 6th, 2021, 11:06 pm

Amberexile wrote: October 30th, 2021, 1:33 am

Torquay Exile wrote: October 29th, 2021, 9:22 pm

Amberexile wrote: October 29th, 2021, 7:59 pm The accounts that are published for the club are more comprehensive than for many clubs at our level in that they contain profit and loss information as well as balance sheet.

The P&Ls show that Turnover for the last 3 years that have been published were -

2018 - £3,223,377
2019 - £4,803.488
2020 - £3,647,606

The Balance Sheet shows that as at 30th June 2020, cash at bank and in hand was £1,334,691.

It will be interesting to see how the 2021 figures stack up against these after a full season of no crowds, furlough scheme and other government grants/loans and increased ifollow availability during the 2020/21 season.

It would be nice to know what have they spent £2,312,915 on?

They spent £3,843,675.

I hope you don't mind me asking you. How did you come to the figure of £3,843,675?

I lifted it straight out of the published accounts

Clearly some do not read or understand the published accounts

So are you saying in 2020 we spent about £3,843,675 in one season or over three seasons?

The accounts are for the Year Ended 30 June 2020. So that is what we spent in total in that year. To be clear, that will be what we spent spent on everything, not just players' wages.

You can access the accounts for that and previous years here - https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

Torquay Exile wrote: November 8th, 2021, 1:02 am

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 7th, 2021, 11:01 pm

Amberexile wrote: November 7th, 2021, 8:35 pm

Torquay Exile wrote: November 6th, 2021, 11:06 pm

Amberexile wrote: October 30th, 2021, 1:33 am

Torquay Exile wrote: October 29th, 2021, 9:22 pm

Amberexile wrote: October 29th, 2021, 7:59 pm The accounts that are published for the club are more comprehensive than for many clubs at our level in that they contain profit and loss information as well as balance sheet.

The P&Ls show that Turnover for the last 3 years that have been published were -

2018 - £3,223,377
2019 - £4,803.488
2020 - £3,647,606

The Balance Sheet shows that as at 30th June 2020, cash at bank and in hand was £1,334,691.

It will be interesting to see how the 2021 figures stack up against these after a full season of no crowds, furlough scheme and other government grants/loans and increased ifollow availability during the 2020/21 season.

It would be nice to know what have they spent £2,312,915 on?

They spent £3,843,675.

I hope you don't mind me asking you. How did you come to the figure of £3,843,675?

I lifted it straight out of the published accounts

Clearly some do not read or understand the published accounts

So are you saying in 2020 we spent about £3,843,675 in one season or over three seasons?

Perhaps now is a good time to update us on the bid to buy the club, and how much expenditure was forcast on a new ground, daily maintenance, and future investment, as well the wages and day to day expenditure?

It must be somewhere higher up the thread, but what bid to buy the club?

I've asked several times how much it would cost to employ and equip our own ground staff but don't remember getting an answer.

pembsexile wrote: November 8th, 2021, 8:19 am

OLDCROMWELLIAN wrote: November 7th, 2021, 11:01 pm

Amberexile wrote: November 7th, 2021, 8:35 pm

Torquay Exile wrote: November 6th, 2021, 11:06 pm

Amberexile wrote: October 30th, 2021, 1:33 am

Torquay Exile wrote: October 29th, 2021, 9:22 pm

Amberexile wrote: October 29th, 2021, 7:59 pm The accounts that are published for the club are more comprehensive than for many clubs at our level in that they contain profit and loss information as well as balance sheet.

The P&Ls show that Turnover for the last 3 years that have been published were -

2018 - £3,223,377
2019 - £4,803.488
2020 - £3,647,606

The Balance Sheet shows that as at 30th June 2020, cash at bank and in hand was £1,334,691.

It will be interesting to see how the 2021 figures stack up against these after a full season of no crowds, furlough scheme and other government grants/loans and increased ifollow availability during the 2020/21 season.

It would be nice to know what have they spent £2,312,915 on?

They spent £3,843,675.

I hope you don't mind me asking you. How did you come to the figure of £3,843,675?

I lifted it straight out of the published accounts

Clearly some do not read or understand the published accounts

Yet they continue to question financial figures when they are available. Then in another context when a poster asks a valid question, quote, ‘and you need to know because’.

Questioning and holding people to account is good. However, questioning can lead to cynicism, extreme cynicism is unhealthy and leads to those people that have certain types of conspiracies about anything and everything. The world has gone doolally.

It certainly is extremely difficult not to agree with your diagnosis of the world’s mental state and if you want a second opinion here’s mine. It should be confined in a secure and safe place until it’s fit enough to be released and in the meantime heavily sedated with a high dose of common sense.
As regards stadium ownership, while it would be helpful to have a stake in our football home, it shouldn’t be forgotten as has been mentioned above it didn’t save us last time we owned one. Also it would be interesting to know the precise costs involved in owning and running a modest, modern football venue. One hears many different estimates but the one I hear often is about half a million annually to run one with no mention of purchase cost. Could the club be viable with that outlay? I’m no financial wizard so I’m just asking the question. Someone else here mentioned the unhealthy English obsession with home ownership ( an Englishman’s home is his castle etc etc ) and I quite agree, meanwhile our renting continental cousins are free to move and change jobs all over the place with little difficulty. It should be remembered that in the fullness of time, none of us own anything not even our corpus which will be shared with the universe.

George Street-Bridge wrote: November 9th, 2021, 7:11 am It must be somewhere higher up the thread, but what bid to buy the club?

I've asked several times how much it would cost to employ and equip our own ground staff but don't remember getting an answer.

The average yearly wage of groundsman /woman in this country is £22,500...Heads ground person possibly £40k....IMO you need at least 6 to keep pitch good
Professional mowers are £2,000+
Tractors £30,000+
Tank fo petrol for mowers £10,000
All other equipment needed upwards of £10,000

Basically your looking at £250,000 to have decent staff and equipment to start... £150,000+ per year there after