Bangitintrnet wrote: May 7th, 2022, 12:22 pm There are none so blind as those that have no wish to see.......

Stan A. Einstein wrote: May 7th, 2022, 1:17 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: May 7th, 2022, 12:22 pm There are none so blind as those that have no wish to see.......

I agree.

lowandhard wrote: May 7th, 2022, 2:13 pm My view fwiw is that the WRU commissioned a report which came up with an answer they already knew and have therefore wasted their cash. They tried to implement this solution years ago and failed miserably, the regions just wouldn’t have it. The WRU are ( like the FAW ) just a bunch of aged junketers with no business acumen and without an original idea in their not so pretty heads. The real problem in Welsh rugby is the inability to grow the amateur game where the number of village clubs has shrunk markedly.
The financial position of the WRU is unremarkable, there are few ( 1or 2 at the most ) rugby clubs in the whole of the professional game that make a profit and it seems to me that TV is the only important prop ( pun intended ) . Until more generous patronage or business streams are added this will continue.
Do I think they’ll cut the regions? No
Do I think they’ll come up with an innovative and imaginative answer to rugby’s problems? No
Will they bumble on and fudge it? Yes
Will they throw County out of RP? No
Will some fans ever really be happy until we have some sort of financial stake in RP as our home? No
Do most fans care about that as long as they can turn up on a Saturday at RP to watch the County? Probably not

lowandhard wrote: May 7th, 2022, 2:13 pm
Will some fans ever really be happy until we have some sort of financial stake in RP as our home? No
Do most fans care about that as long as they can turn up on a Saturday at RP to watch the County? Probably not

Stan A. Einstein wrote: May 7th, 2022, 4:01 pm

lowandhard wrote: May 7th, 2022, 2:13 pm
Will some fans ever really be happy until we have some sort of financial stake in RP as our home? No
Do most fans care about that as long as they can turn up on a Saturday at RP to watch the County? Probably not

I agree entirely with those two comments and fairly obviously I am one of those fans who will never be happy until we have a financial stake in our home, be it at Rodney Parade or elsewhere.

Here's my concern. Nearly 40 years ago on a cold spring morning I stood on the popular bank at Somerton Park and in a five figure crowd cheered on County to a 1-0 win over Cardiff City. I was then one of the fans who didn't care so long as I could turn up on a Saturday to watch County.

If someone had told me then that within fivr years I wouldn't be able to turn up on a Saturday to watch County because there would be no County to watch, quite simply I would not have thought it possible.

I am not some latter day Cassandra. But I do believe that being wary of what might occur and working towards building a more solid foundation to our club is the right approach.

I don't, as some on this board claim, live in the past. But like you Mike I have seen what can happen, and anything that has happened, can happen again.

Bangitintrnet wrote: May 7th, 2022, 10:48 am

pembsexile wrote: May 7th, 2022, 10:11 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: May 7th, 2022, 9:46 am Oh dear oh dear oh dear

We have an abulance chaser looking for a disaster to hang his big project on, and his right hand man simply diverting attention. Pathetic.

Yet another straw man argument.

Diverting attention? Have a look at my post on this thread at 9.43am yesterday where I responded to you.

Exactly, precisely.
Has it never a occurred to you that the County are in the best situation that they could be. I. E. Having a landlord that requires them in order to make the ground viable? Just think about that..........

Now I don't know if the ground is viable with just the County as the sole user, but I know for sure that it isn't viable without them.

Now Consider Coventry City, owned Highfield Road. Wanted a bigger ground and the Council wanted them to move, hence the Rioch. Attendence fell to the point where the stadium wasn't viable for them and the owners (a charitable trust and the local council) and they had to move away until it became viable again.

Now consider Newport Rugby, no longer viable to play at RP moved away, doing better.

Also consider Bristol City and the Bristol Bears that play there. They lost the memorial ground to Bristol Rovers, who has done better?

You are falling into Stans trap of believing that because the ownership of RP is with the WRU, that they wish to do us harm, and that is the basis of the discussion. It simply isn't an argument that has any merit.


Why don't you consider the evidence, the WRU are just a landlord looking after something that needs to be viable.

I have studied planning in Wales, which is important, because planning is devolved, and I know what is required even to get to outline planning consent. The Council moved various sports to Spytty, but always provided an alternative
Facility. So to build on RP the first thing they would require is where is the alternative facility being constructed and detail benifit, and the need of the realeasd site. Road network and access statements. A community statement, an environmental impact assessment, etc, etc.

Another thing to consider is that the WRU pay 80% of each of the Regions Welsh players wages. So the income that the Regions receive from bums on seats is far less.

The bottom line is this. We don't require cement, when what we are bringing to the table makes the venue viable.

lowandhard wrote: May 7th, 2022, 4:12 pm

Stan A. Einstein wrote: May 7th, 2022, 4:01 pm

lowandhard wrote: May 7th, 2022, 2:13 pm
Will some fans ever really be happy until we have some sort of financial stake in RP as our home? No
Do most fans care about that as long as they can turn up on a Saturday at RP to watch the County? Probably not

I agree entirely with those two comments and fairly obviously I am one of those fans who will never be happy until we have a financial stake in our home, be it at Rodney Parade or elsewhere.

Here's my concern. Nearly 40 years ago on a cold spring morning I stood on the popular bank at Somerton Park and in a five figure crowd cheered on County to a 1-0 win over Cardiff City. I was then one of the fans who didn't care so long as I could turn up on a Saturday to watch County.

If someone had told me then that within fivr years I wouldn't be able to turn up on a Saturday to watch County because there would be no County to watch, quite simply I would not have thought it possible.

I am not some latter day Cassandra. But I do believe that being wary of what might occur and working towards building a more solid foundation to our club is the right approach.

I don't, as some on this board claim, live in the past. But like you Mike I have seen what can happen, and anything that has happened, can happen again.

True. We were perilously close imho at the great escape! Like you I’d love us to be secure but atm I tend to think our survival is more based on our league status than our home ground - and nobody has come up for the plan for the latter.

lowandhard wrote: May 7th, 2022, 2:13 pm My view fwiw is that the WRU commissioned a report which came up with an answer they already knew and have therefore wasted their cash. They tried to implement this solution years ago and failed miserably, the regions just wouldn’t have it. The WRU are ( like the FAW ) just a bunch of aged junketers with no business acumen and without an original idea in their not so pretty heads. The real problem in Welsh rugby is the inability to grow the amateur game where the number of village clubs has shrunk markedly.
The financial position of the WRU is unremarkable, there are few ( 1or 2 at the most ) rugby clubs in the whole of the professional game that make a profit and it seems to me that TV is the only important prop ( pun intended ) . Until more generous patronage or business streams are added this will continue.
Do I think they’ll cut the regions? No
Do I think they’ll come up with an innovative and imaginative answer to rugby’s problems? No
Will they bumble on and fudge it? Yes
Will they throw County out of RP? No
Will some fans ever really be happy until we have some sort of financial stake in RP as our home? No
Do most fans care about that as long as they can turn up on a Saturday at RP to watch the County? Probably not

landinho wrote: May 7th, 2022, 11:50 pm

lowandhard wrote: May 7th, 2022, 2:13 pm My view fwiw is that the WRU commissioned a report which came up with an answer they already knew and have therefore wasted their cash. They tried to implement this solution years ago and failed miserably, the regions just wouldn’t have it. The WRU are ( like the FAW ) just a bunch of aged junketers with no business acumen and without an original idea in their not so pretty heads. The real problem in Welsh rugby is the inability to grow the amateur game where the number of village clubs has shrunk markedly.
The financial position of the WRU is unremarkable, there are few ( 1or 2 at the most ) rugby clubs in the whole of the professional game that make a profit and it seems to me that TV is the only important prop ( pun intended ) . Until more generous patronage or business streams are added this will continue.
Do I think they’ll cut the regions? No
Do I think they’ll come up with an innovative and imaginative answer to rugby’s problems? No
Will they bumble on and fudge it? Yes
Will they throw County out of RP? No
Will some fans ever really be happy until we have some sort of financial stake in RP as our home? No
Do most fans care about that as long as they can turn up on a Saturday at RP to watch the County? Probably not

I'd agree with this. As a club this could be an opportunity though. If the regions don't get cut, at a minimum they need to be more self sufficient. The WRU have acknowledged that they could sell RP as part of a Dragons privatisation but that it'd be complicated by the other two teams. A sale tackles their Covid debts and (imo) allows them to pick a fight with the Ospreys instead.

The sums would be tight but the WRU are not in the negotiating position they were in when that was written in 2019. Plus we'd be the dominant partner compared to the Dragons, arguably with more cash on hand. £2.85m was the cited price, arguably £3.85m after the debt write off. They'd probably want more for it, but if it were c. £2m per team it wouldn't be an impossible sum.

landinho wrote: May 7th, 2022, 11:50 pm

lowandhard wrote: May 7th, 2022, 2:13 pm My view fwiw is that the WRU commissioned a report which came up with an answer they already knew and have therefore wasted their cash. They tried to implement this solution years ago and failed miserably, the regions just wouldn’t have it. The WRU are ( like the FAW ) just a bunch of aged junketers with no business acumen and without an original idea in their not so pretty heads. The real problem in Welsh rugby is the inability to grow the amateur game where the number of village clubs has shrunk markedly.
The financial position of the WRU is unremarkable, there are few ( 1or 2 at the most ) rugby clubs in the whole of the professional game that make a profit and it seems to me that TV is the only important prop ( pun intended ) . Until more generous patronage or business streams are added this will continue.
Do I think they’ll cut the regions? No
Do I think they’ll come up with an innovative and imaginative answer to rugby’s problems? No
Will they bumble on and fudge it? Yes
Will they throw County out of RP? No
Will some fans ever really be happy until we have some sort of financial stake in RP as our home? No
Do most fans care about that as long as they can turn up on a Saturday at RP to watch the County? Probably not

I'd agree with this. As a club this could be an opportunity though. If the regions don't get cut, at a minimum they need to be more self sufficient. The WRU have acknowledged that they could sell RP as part of a Dragons privatisation but that it'd be complicated by the other two teams. A sale tackles their Covid debts and (imo) allows them to pick a fight with the Ospreys instead.

The sums would be tight but the WRU are not in the negotiating position they were in when that was written in 2019. Plus we'd be the dominant partner compared to the Dragons, arguably with more cash on hand. £2.85m was the cited price, arguably £3.85m after the debt write off. They'd probably want more for it, but if it were c. £2m per team it wouldn't be an impossible sum.

pembsexile wrote: May 7th, 2022, 6:06 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: May 7th, 2022, 10:48 am

pembsexile wrote: May 7th, 2022, 10:11 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: May 7th, 2022, 9:46 am Oh dear oh dear oh dear

We have an abulance chaser looking for a disaster to hang his big project on, and his right hand man simply diverting attention. Pathetic.

Yet another straw man argument.

Diverting attention? Have a look at my post on this thread at 9.43am yesterday where I responded to you.

Exactly, precisely.
Has it never a occurred to you that the County are in the best situation that they could be. I. E. Having a landlord that requires them in order to make the ground viable? Just think about that..........

Now I don't know if the ground is viable with just the County as the sole user, but I know for sure that it isn't viable without them.

Now Consider Coventry City, owned Highfield Road. Wanted a bigger ground and the Council wanted them to move, hence the Rioch. Attendence fell to the point where the stadium wasn't viable for them and the owners (a charitable trust and the local council) and they had to move away until it became viable again.

Now consider Newport Rugby, no longer viable to play at RP moved away, doing better.

Also consider Bristol City and the Bristol Bears that play there. They lost the memorial ground to Bristol Rovers, who has done better?

You are falling into Stans trap of believing that because the ownership of RP is with the WRU, that they wish to do us harm, and that is the basis of the discussion. It simply isn't an argument that has any merit.


Why don't you consider the evidence, the WRU are just a landlord looking after something that needs to be viable.

I have studied planning in Wales, which is important, because planning is devolved, and I know what is required even to get to outline planning consent. The Council moved various sports to Spytty, but always provided an alternative
Facility. So to build on RP the first thing they would require is where is the alternative facility being constructed and detail benifit, and the need of the realeasd site. Road network and access statements. A community statement, an environmental impact assessment, etc, etc.

Another thing to consider is that the WRU pay 80% of each of the Regions Welsh players wages. So the income that the Regions receive from bums on seats is far less.

The bottom line is this. We don't require cement, when what we are bringing to the table makes the venue viable.

What on earth do you mean by ‘Precisely. Exactly’? My previous comment could hardly be construed to mean that I was diverting attention from a serious issue could it? I just wish some people on here (not just you) would refer to what people actually say, instead of what they think people say. Furthermore, other people, including you used the word cement in their post before I did. Cementing our position as the premier sporting club in Newport is a sound proposition. How do we do that is the question.

I think I made it quite clear in my post yesterday that I am certainly not a planning expert but I do have opinions and ideas. Nothing more, nothing less. Certainly no diversionary tactics from me.

Bangitintrnet wrote: May 8th, 2022, 12:07 pm

pembsexile wrote: May 7th, 2022, 6:06 pm

Bangitintrnet wrote: May 7th, 2022, 10:48 am

pembsexile wrote: May 7th, 2022, 10:11 am

Bangitintrnet wrote: May 7th, 2022, 9:46 am Oh dear oh dear oh dear

We have an abulance chaser looking for a disaster to hang his big project on, and his right hand man simply diverting attention. Pathetic.

Yet another straw man argument.

Diverting attention? Have a look at my post on this thread at 9.43am yesterday where I responded to you.

Exactly, precisely.
Has it never a occurred to you that the County are in the best situation that they could be. I. E. Having a landlord that requires them in order to make the ground viable? Just think about that..........

Now I don't know if the ground is viable with just the County as the sole user, but I know for sure that it isn't viable without them.

Now Consider Coventry City, owned Highfield Road. Wanted a bigger ground and the Council wanted them to move, hence the Rioch. Attendence fell to the point where the stadium wasn't viable for them and the owners (a charitable trust and the local council) and they had to move away until it became viable again.

Now consider Newport Rugby, no longer viable to play at RP moved away, doing better.

Also consider Bristol City and the Bristol Bears that play there. They lost the memorial ground to Bristol Rovers, who has done better?

You are falling into Stans trap of believing that because the ownership of RP is with the WRU, that they wish to do us harm, and that is the basis of the discussion. It simply isn't an argument that has any merit.


Why don't you consider the evidence, the WRU are just a landlord looking after something that needs to be viable.

I have studied planning in Wales, which is important, because planning is devolved, and I know what is required even to get to outline planning consent. The Council moved various sports to Spytty, but always provided an alternative
Facility. So to build on RP the first thing they would require is where is the alternative facility being constructed and detail benifit, and the need of the realeasd site. Road network and access statements. A community statement, an environmental impact assessment, etc, etc.

Another thing to consider is that the WRU pay 80% of each of the Regions Welsh players wages. So the income that the Regions receive from bums on seats is far less.

The bottom line is this. We don't require cement, when what we are bringing to the table makes the venue viable.

What on earth do you mean by ‘Precisely. Exactly’? My previous comment could hardly be construed to mean that I was diverting attention from a serious issue could it? I just wish some people on here (not just you) would refer to what people actually say, instead of what they think people say. Furthermore, other people, including you used the word cement in their post before I did. Cementing our position as the premier sporting club in Newport is a sound proposition. How do we do that is the question.

I think I made it quite clear in my post yesterday that I am certainly not a planning expert but I do have opinions and ideas. Nothing more, nothing less. Certainly no diversionary tactics from me.

Quote from Stan....

Morning Colin,

My plan is really simple.

First step is that we acknowledge the problem.

Second step is that we politely explain to those who wish to bury their heads in the sand, that that is no longer an option.

Third step is that we speak to all the clubs who have developed their own stadiums and ask them how they managed to do it. What worked and as importantly what didn't.

Step four is to engage with the fan base and start to work towards our aim, together.

Step five is we listen to everyone who wants to help.

Step 6. We ignore those who are so narrow minded that they believe nothing can be done

Now that sets the tone of there is a problem, and the solution to solving it, is speaking to clubs about how to develop their own stadium, nothing else is to be considered.
Torquay Exile asks a question of Stan, and you respond on his behalf. So Torquay Exile asks if you are Stan? and gets abused. That's diversion.

Then I am not allowed by you to ask the question, why is cementing a relationship at Rodney Parade a unique problem to County when ground shares happen regularly all around the Country? You refuse to answer, by basically telling me I am not allowed to ask that, as the question should be how can WE do so? Ignoring the point that I am making, that we have already. Then you complain about my use of the word Cement. Again this is just diversion.

If you and Stan spent some time researching what clubs are doing now, they are sharing. Why are they doing that, and ignoring the holy grail of cementing sporting supremacy?