I agree, I maybe wouldn’t have written it so skilfully, but I do agree with this. Going slightly off topic, the only Ray of light towards the back end of last season, as the wheels came of the wagon, was the number of younger faces populating our attendances …. Not sure if they were “induced” with freebies to come over or not …. but there appeared to be a darn sight more of em … and as you put it Stanley, hopefully they’ll still be going long after I’ve gone !!Stan A. Einstein wrote: June 8th, 2022, 9:34 am For me as I said it's not a question which has a definitive answer. For those of us who think it's one club it is one club, for those who think it's two, it is two.
Here's my slightly odd reason for thinking it's just one. If you go on Youtube you will find black and white grainy film of Newport County playing some works team in the FA Cup in the autumn of 1938. Every player on the pitch that day is dead. Of the crowd shots of smiling excited faces even the youngest child will be well into their 90s but the overwhelming majority perhsps all are no longer with us. But watching the old newsreel I still wanted County to win. And when I see kids at games today, it is somehow comforting to think that when I'm under the sod because of them our club will go on.
Thats all.
Re: Our own ground?
17Yes agreed on all counts about it being the same club we supported then as now though I must admit that when we started using the “ County “ suffix again was when my joy of being a fan was fully restored.Justanordinaryfan wrote: June 8th, 2022, 11:23 amI agree, I maybe wouldn’t have written it so skilfully, but I do agree with this. Going slightly off topic, the only Ray of light towards the back end of last season, as the wheels came of the wagon, was the number of younger faces populating our attendances …. Not sure if they were “induced” with freebies to come over or not …. but there appeared to be a darn sight more of em … and as you put it Stanley, hopefully they’ll still be going long after I’ve gone !!Stan A. Einstein wrote: June 8th, 2022, 9:34 am For me as I said it's not a question which has a definitive answer. For those of us who think it's one club it is one club, for those who think it's two, it is two.
Here's my slightly odd reason for thinking it's just one. If you go on Youtube you will find black and white grainy film of Newport County playing some works team in the FA Cup in the autumn of 1938. Every player on the pitch that day is dead. Of the crowd shots of smiling excited faces even the youngest child will be well into their 90s but the overwhelming majority perhsps all are no longer with us. But watching the old newsreel I still wanted County to win. And when I see kids at games today, it is somehow comforting to think that when I'm under the sod because of them our club will go on.
Thats all.
Re: Our own ground?
18Exactly that.lowandhard wrote: June 12th, 2022, 7:59 pmYes agreed on all counts about it being the same club we supported then as now though I must admit that when we started using the “ County “ suffix again was when my joy of being a fan was fully restored.Justanordinaryfan wrote: June 8th, 2022, 11:23 amI agree, I maybe wouldn’t have written it so skilfully, but I do agree with this. Going slightly off topic, the only Ray of light towards the back end of last season, as the wheels came of the wagon, was the number of younger faces populating our attendances …. Not sure if they were “induced” with freebies to come over or not …. but there appeared to be a darn sight more of em … and as you put it Stanley, hopefully they’ll still be going long after I’ve gone !!Stan A. Einstein wrote: June 8th, 2022, 9:34 am For me as I said it's not a question which has a definitive answer. For those of us who think it's one club it is one club, for those who think it's two, it is two.
Here's my slightly odd reason for thinking it's just one. If you go on Youtube you will find black and white grainy film of Newport County playing some works team in the FA Cup in the autumn of 1938. Every player on the pitch that day is dead. Of the crowd shots of smiling excited faces even the youngest child will be well into their 90s but the overwhelming majority perhsps all are no longer with us. But watching the old newsreel I still wanted County to win. And when I see kids at games today, it is somehow comforting to think that when I'm under the sod because of them our club will go on.
Thats all.
Re: Our own ground?
19My first game was Exeter home August 1969 and since then I have always said I'm going over to watch the County
Same club to me
Same club to me
Re: Our own ground?
20One of the problems of philosophy is what constitutes identity. 2 red billiard balls are qualitatively identical if they are exactly alike. But they are numerically different since they are 2 different objects. On the other hand, my 75 year old self is qualitatively very different from my 25 year old self, but numerically identical since I have an uninterrupted existence through time and space in the 50 intervening years. Had I been blown to smithereens at age 50, only to be reconstituted in an identical form and with identical memories a short time later, my second incarnation would have been a facsimile of my first. But facsimiles, however qualitatively identical they may be, are not numerically identical. This is just the result of the meaning of the word 'facsimile': it makes no sense to say that something is the facsimile of itself: it can only be the facsimile of something numerically different from itself. Now, the Newport County club, known as the Iron sides, was never a physical object, but it was a legal and social entity. And, the fact is, that it ceased to exist in either a legal or a social sense, since for a time it would have been meaningless for any of us to have declared we were members of it. Had we done so it could legitimately have been asked what we thought we were members of, the original club having gone out of existence. It follows that the new club must have been a replacement for, not a numerically identical reincarnation of, the old one. The logic, I think, is clear, and David Hando is correct. Two different clubs. Not that it matters, as far as I'm concerned, because I am as fanatically devoted to the second club as I was to the first.
Re: Our own ground?
21I believe the second club existed before the old club finally folded, but might be wrong with that.
If it did, there were two entities in existence at the same time.
However, still refer to it as one club.
If it did, there were two entities in existence at the same time.
However, still refer to it as one club.
Re: Our own ground?
22One of the major problems with Philosophy is that logic is used by Philosophers as a tool for explaining the world and our place in it. It has its uses but is sometimes found out.DorsetExile wrote: June 13th, 2022, 4:38 pm One of the problems of philosophy is what constitutes identity. 2 red billiard balls are qualitatively identical if they are exactly alike. But they are numerically different since they are 2 different objects. On the other hand, my 75 year old self is qualitatively very different from my 25 year old self, but numerically identical since I have an uninterrupted existence through time and space in the 50 intervening years. Had I been blown to smithereens at age 50, only to be reconstituted in an identical form and with identical memories a short time later, my second incarnation would have been a facsimile of my first. But facsimiles, however qualitatively identical they may be, are not numerically identical. This is just the result of the meaning of the word 'facsimile': it makes no sense to say that something is the facsimile of itself: it can only be the facsimile of something numerically different from itself. Now, the Newport County club, known as the Iron sides, was never a physical object, but it was a legal and social entity. And, the fact is, that it ceased to exist in either a legal or a social sense, since for a time it would have been meaningless for any of us to have declared we were members of it. Had we done so it could legitimately have been asked what we thought we were members of, the original club having gone out of existence. It follows that the new club must have been a replacement for, not a numerically identical reincarnation of, the old one. The logic, I think, is clear, and David Hando is correct. Two different clubs. Not that it matters, as far as I'm concerned, because I am as fanatically devoted to the second club as I was to the first.
The 18th century was known as the Age of Reason, or the Enlightenment. Logic prevailed. In about 1798 this age of reason was blown apart by a Philosopher called De Laclos in a very famous book where logic was shown to be wanting. This ushered in the Romantic era where emotion played a far more important part in explaining the world.
You have applied the logical thinking of the earlier philosophers to explain the County history and current existence. It’s fine for the Law and reason. My feelings for the County have nothing to do with logic, it is all emotion. If I applied the rational, logical side of the story to the club I wouldn’t be following an under achieving tin pot club who don’t even own their own stadium. Instead I allow my emotions to prevail. The club I support is the same one I first watched 58 years ago, warts ‘n all. I am too old to change any view I have. Cmon the County.
Re: Our own ground?
23Blimey! Have I taken a wrong turn and stumbled into an Oxford University lecture this evening?
Re: Our own ground?
24Sorry if it sounded like a lecture. It wasn't meant to. I was just trying to show why I believe David Hando is correct in thinking that the original club and the present one are, strictly speaking, different ones. And I agree totally that supporting a football club has everything to do with emotion. That was the point of me saying that I have been fanatically devoted to both (?) Newport Counties since I attended my first game in the 1950s. As you rightly point out, Logic can have had nothing at all to do with it!
Re: Our own ground?
25And of course not one atom or molecule of the original constituents of Newport County as formed in 1912 exists ( at least in that form ) not the players, managers, match balls, kit, stadium, pitch or dare I say it - fans 
. The living bits of Newport County are renewed however on a daily basis until the day comes when they are not! and the non-living ones as and when required. Although unrecognisable ( unless you are an analyst of DNA ) now from that boy that first started watching the County about 70 years ago, I hope ( fervently ) that I am still the same person supporting the same club though much of me has been replaced in the normal biological way and I resemble that boy as much as the current club players resemble that team I first watched - that is, not at all. This is nearly as much fun as you can have without a football.
. The living bits of Newport County are renewed however on a daily basis until the day comes when they are not! and the non-living ones as and when required. Although unrecognisable ( unless you are an analyst of DNA ) now from that boy that first started watching the County about 70 years ago, I hope ( fervently ) that I am still the same person supporting the same club though much of me has been replaced in the normal biological way and I resemble that boy as much as the current club players resemble that team I first watched - that is, not at all. This is nearly as much fun as you can have without a football. Re: Our own ground?
26Let’s go back to 1989.Jerry Sherman was saying that he had the financial backing to save Newport County and,they would be playing in the Gola League for the forthcoming 89/90 season.Fans were less sure,one April evening,a Lifeline meeting was arranged to ask,do we wait for Jerry to resurrect County or,do Lifeline Society give back the funds held in the society to the members.Marc Williams and Colin Jones suggested another option.Why don’t we form a new club to replace the old County,as Sherman may not keep his word.This idea was discussed after the meeting and AFC were officially born in June 1989.We were advised by a Sherman aid not to bother as Jerry was in the process of reforming County,we ignored that advice and continued our dream.Indeed,the Gola league still left a place open for Newport County well into July so,if by some miracle,Sherman had got the funding to save County,there would have been two Newport teams playing in exile that season.Would two sides have survived with small crowds in exile,how many of the 400 fans at that Lysaghts meeting would have stayed with AFC,how many would have gone with Jerry and the County name,who knows.What I do know is,there would have been two separate teams so,we cannot possibly be the old County.
Re: Our own ground?
27Percy,Percy plunkett wrote: June 13th, 2022, 11:27 pm Let’s go back to 1989.Jerry Sherman was saying that he had the financial backing to save Newport County and,they would be playing in the Gola League for the forthcoming 89/90 season.Fans were less sure,one April evening,a Lifeline meeting was arranged to ask,do we wait for Jerry to resurrect County or,do Lifeline Society give back the funds held in the society to the members.Marc Williams and Colin Jones suggested another option.Why don’t we form a new club to replace the old County,as Sherman may not keep his word.This idea was discussed after the meeting and AFC were officially born in June 1989.We were advised by a Sherman aid not to bother as Jerry was in the process of reforming County,we ignored that advice and continued our dream.Indeed,the Gola league still left a place open for Newport County well into July so,if by some miracle,Sherman had got the funding to save County,there would have been two Newport teams playing in exile that season.Would two sides have survived with small crowds in exile,how many of the 400 fans at that Lysaghts meeting would have stayed with AFC,how many would have gone with Jerry and the County name,who knows.What I do know is,there would have been two separate teams so,we cannot possibly be the old County.
I know that as with many who were involved with the reformation, it is important to you that there are two clubs. I understand that and that is a view you are perfectly entitled to take.
However for those of us who think there is only one club there is only one club. For me we are the old County, for you we are not. Trying to make a definitive argument doesn't work. Buying the name Newport County and using it is not an argument I would use to try to convince you. It holds no water. Nor does your argument that there would have two clubs. As I said there is no right or wrong answer.
Re: Our own ground?
29Stan Einstein claims that there is no right or wrong answer to this question. It would be interesting to see his reasons for saying so.
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