I've already been branded a misogynist may as well go for the double (I'm being facetious because I'm not 'phobe' of anything - except perhaps Wrexham!)...
Extremely brave of the footballers to refuse to play in my view they are risking a lot because these are not well paid or protected people these are amateur footballers who risk cancellation (which is very real sadly) and perhaps even some issues in work by taking this stance. Despite what 1990's feminists told us (and have now been hoisted by their own petard) men and women are biologically different and anyone who has been through male puberty will have advantages over 90% of females in sports - FACT (and I won't go down the rabbit hole of saying men's sports are 'better' than women's they are different).
I believe we should respect everyone but not indulge people by telling polite lies like 'it doesn't matter that you're biologically male' when in sports it clearly does.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67482965
Re: FA trying to resolve 'complex issue' after rival teams refuse to play against trans player
2You don't hear of many born females they say they are now a man attempting to play against men
Because they know they'd have no chance of competing
Because they know they'd have no chance of competing
Re: FA trying to resolve 'complex issue' after rival teams refuse to play against trans player
3To be clear I don't think its a conspiracy of loads of trans wo[men] trying it on so they can play at a higher level of sport as women - I think its more that these people genuinely believe they are women and have been indulged in that. There is nothing wrong in principle with identifying as anything but where it has real world impacts such as in sport or female (or male) only spaces it becomes harder and more complex or often downright silly to indulge someone's identity.
In the same but a different way would I/most men want to be playing Sunday league v a team with a small female who identified as a male? (I'm not the biggest but if I tackled a petite women in a football game I'd probably do them an injury its the advantages of being male/testosterone as opposed to size/stature per se or skill because no doubt many female footballers would be far more skilled at the game than me).
In the same but a different way would I/most men want to be playing Sunday league v a team with a small female who identified as a male? (I'm not the biggest but if I tackled a petite women in a football game I'd probably do them an injury its the advantages of being male/testosterone as opposed to size/stature per se or skill because no doubt many female footballers would be far more skilled at the game than me).
Re: FA trying to resolve 'complex issue' after rival teams refuse to play against trans player
4What do they hold when standing in the wall?
Re: FA trying to resolve 'complex issue' after rival teams refuse to play against trans player
5I think a trans-only league (assuming that's feasible) is perhaps the best option. Though would trans folk be indignant at being ostracised?
On a sort of parallel, I used to think how unfair it is that basketball is dominated by tall people.
On a sort of parallel, I used to think how unfair it is that basketball is dominated by tall people.
Re: FA trying to resolve 'complex issue' after rival teams refuse to play against trans player
6Short basketball players are just as likely as ladies with big hooters playing football..nature works in mysterious ways.
Re: FA trying to resolve 'complex issue' after rival teams refuse to play against trans player
7And some people wonder why this forum has died on its arse.
Re: FA trying to resolve 'complex issue' after rival teams refuse to play against trans player
8Agreed. Worth noting some of the women (girls) in that league are as young as 16. This guy’s 30 years old. No wonder he’s injuring women and opposing teams don’t want to play against him.CathedralCounty wrote: November 21st, 2023, 2:24 pm I've already been branded a misogynist may as well go for the double (I'm being facetious because I'm not 'phobe' of anything - except perhaps Wrexham!)...
Extremely brave of the footballers to refuse to play in my view they are risking a lot because these are not well paid or protected people these are amateur footballers who risk cancellation (which is very real sadly) and perhaps even some issues in work by taking this stance. Despite what 1990's feminists told us (and have now been hoisted by their own petard) men and women are biologically different and anyone who has been through male puberty will have advantages over 90% of females in sports - FACT (and I won't go down the rabbit hole of saying men's sports are 'better' than women's they are different).
I believe we should respect everyone but not indulge people by telling polite lies like 'it doesn't matter that you're biologically male' when in sports it clearly does.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67482965
Re: FA trying to resolve 'complex issue' after rival teams refuse to play against trans player
9Eh? a bit of mainly sensible discussion on a football related matter? OK a few people have sprinkled a bit of perhaps silly humor into it, but still I think this is exactly what a forum like this is for - County & Football (and where football meets the world at large). If people can't cope with that they should stay off the internet.Free beer wrote: November 22nd, 2023, 5:10 pm And some people wonder why this forum has died on its arse.
Last edited by CathedralCounty on November 23rd, 2023, 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: FA trying to resolve 'complex issue' after rival teams refuse to play against trans player
10Some people would be 'be indignant at being ostracised' very indignant indeed I imagine if any other protests around this issue are anything to go by I hope the players/teams/leagues in question don't buckle and cower to the bullies - comes down to equality of opportunity (to play football) and equality of outcome (to play football in the setting you choose even if its unsuitable).JonD wrote: November 22nd, 2023, 4:02 pm I think a trans-only league (assuming that's feasible) is perhaps the best option. Though would trans folk be indignant at being ostracised?
On a sort of parallel, I used to think how unfair it is that basketball is dominated by tall people.
Re: FA trying to resolve 'complex issue' after rival teams refuse to play against trans player
11Having read a little about this, my understanding now is that the main issue is actually about pigeon holing into stereotypes. So disabled football, or gay football, trans football are all things that are constructed by those who are 'normal' but want others to be separated out.CathedralCounty wrote: November 23rd, 2023, 9:03 amSome people would be 'be indignant at being ostracised' very indignant indeed I imagine if any other protests around this issue are anything to go by I hope the players/teams/leagues in question don't buckle and cower to the bullies - comes down to equality of opportunity (to play football) and equality of outcome (to play football in the setting you choose even if its unsuitable).JonD wrote: November 22nd, 2023, 4:02 pm I think a trans-only league (assuming that's feasible) is perhaps the best option. Though would trans folk be indignant at being ostracised?
On a sort of parallel, I used to think how unfair it is that basketball is dominated by tall people.
This seems to have led to people who don't feel 'normal' to now have taken the non binary stance, where they don't want to be pigeon holed and seperated as most of 'normal people' do. To me it is just an extension giving children dolls or guns as toys.
I can't pretend to know that much about why people don't feel like they wish to live their lives as one gender stereotype or the other, but it does seem that more people are choosing to be neither.
I find that interesting, rather than something to reject, simply because that's not my individual view. If non gender specific toilets stops violence from those who object to others, I can see why they are becoming popular.
In the case of trans, I believe that they are choosing to pigeon hole themselves, so the solution might be that they except exclusion, rather than exclusivity.
Re: FA trying to resolve 'complex issue' after rival teams refuse to play against trans player
12Its simple and complex at the same time - but in terms of sports there is a reason why we have the [say] mixed ability football - or football for autistic kids (a great initiative which is quite a big thing in Scotland I believe) - because people with physical/mental disadvantages want an outlet and meaningful but fair competition - of course in sport if one isn't skilled in any category that is somewhat unfair but a different aspect I suppose?Bangitintrnet wrote: November 23rd, 2023, 9:57 amHaving read a little about this, my understanding now is that the main issue is actually about pigeon holing into stereotypes. So disabled football, or gay football, trans football are all things that are constructed by those who are 'normal' but want others to be separated out.CathedralCounty wrote: November 23rd, 2023, 9:03 amSome people would be 'be indignant at being ostracised' very indignant indeed I imagine if any other protests around this issue are anything to go by I hope the players/teams/leagues in question don't buckle and cower to the bullies - comes down to equality of opportunity (to play football) and equality of outcome (to play football in the setting you choose even if its unsuitable).JonD wrote: November 22nd, 2023, 4:02 pm I think a trans-only league (assuming that's feasible) is perhaps the best option. Though would trans folk be indignant at being ostracised?
On a sort of parallel, I used to think how unfair it is that basketball is dominated by tall people.
This seems to have led to people who don't feel 'normal' to now have taken the non binary stance, where they don't want to be pigeon holed and seperated as most of 'normal people' do. To me it is just an extension giving children dolls or guns as toys.
I can't pretend to know that much about why people don't feel like they wish to live their lives as one gender stereotype or the other, but it does seem that more people are choosing to be neither.
I find that interesting, rather than something to reject, simply because that's not my individual view. If non gender specific toilets stops violence from those who object to others, I can see why they are becoming popular.
In the case of trans, I believe that they are choosing to pigeon hole themselves, so the solution might be that they except exclusion, rather than exclusivity.
One issue is the constant but ultimately doomed strive for 'inclusivity' which as per my point on skill is a hopeless quest in many ways not everyone will 'feel' welcome or that they 'belong', sports as a player or spectator are horses for courses.
As for toilets I feel where possible the self contained cubicle/sink combo is the best option for smaller venues - might not work for stadiums though and obviously changing rooms are whole different issue of course.
Re: FA trying to resolve 'complex issue' after rival teams refuse to play against trans player
13It's about time someone had the balls to stand up to this movement.
Re: FA trying to resolve 'complex issue' after rival teams refuse to play against trans player
14Think there was some cheeky wordplay there?! but a lot of people/groups are now doing so - the tide is turning - for me the tans lobby (which is generally distinct from trans people as individuals who seem to want a respected but quiet existence) has overplayed their hand - the irony being the constant crying wolf of 'trans phobia' is leading to actual real transphobia.rncfc wrote: November 23rd, 2023, 11:04 am It's about time someone had the balls to stand up to this movement.
When you have lesbians effectively banned from pride marches (for simply saying they don't wish to sleep with biological males) and young sportswomen being absolutely crushed in sports by biological males and cancelled when they speak out about that and being forced to change in the same spaces as a further insult (as one of 100's of examples) then we've reached a very perverse/sad/ludicrous situation and I have huge respect for the [mainly] women speaking out not against trans people but the trans lobby.
Re: FA trying to resolve 'complex issue' after rival teams refuse to play against trans player
15In sport you have always had those trying to seek an advantage, i can think of female Russian shotputers injecting, and even rugby players today.
To me this is not trans people seeking an advantage, or even a level playing field. It's more about how groups perceive the concept of what is 'normal' and what they believe should be separated.
To me this is not trans people seeking an advantage, or even a level playing field. It's more about how groups perceive the concept of what is 'normal' and what they believe should be separated.
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