It makes me laugh that the ones moaning about BLM and the knee are saying it's far left politics

So am just guessing they are from the right and white and never experienced racist abuse or being stopped because of their colour skin

UPTHEPORT wrote:It makes me laugh that the ones moaning about BLM and the knee are saying it's far left politics

So am just guessing they are from the right and white and never experienced racist abuse or being stopped because of their colour skin

In the main think people get and even respect the sentiment behind the various ‘initiatives’ it’s the constancy and continuation of them especially in football that grates – I personally support ‘diversity without division’ (we have too much of the latter now) and have very personal reasons to be anti-racist and to generally promote diversity and inclusivity in football/life I'm also avowedly left wing on most issues as well. I just don’t like the exhausting & alienating preaching to football fans, albeit it is what is (a bit of a trend) and will die down.

As far as the car/wealth thing you are possibly misunderstanding mine and others points – if a young black man from a normal background with a normal job stood up (or kneeled down) and spoke to me on their situation and experiences with say the police I would be far more likely to respect, listen to and understand their views than that of a cosseted multi-millionaire footballer/F1 driver or whatever of whatever skin colour.

UPTHEPORT wrote:It makes me laugh that the ones moaning about BLM and the knee are saying it's far left politics

So am just guessing they are from the right and white and never experienced racist abuse or being stopped because of their colour skin

Well said mate, as someone mentioned earlier that BLM was extreme left, wanted to dismantle the police force etc etc and whatever other lies they can dream up to discredit racial equality, I thought I’d post their website for perusal. https://blacklivesmatter.uk/official-statement
If you disagree with their aims then sorry if you’re not racist what exactly are you?

lowandhard wrote:

UPTHEPORT wrote:It makes me laugh that the ones moaning about BLM and the knee are saying it's far left politics

So am just guessing they are from the right and white and never experienced racist abuse or being stopped because of their colour skin

Well said mate, as someone mentioned earlier that BLM was extreme left, wanted to dismantle the police force etc etc and whatever other lies they can dream up to discredit racial equality, I thought I’d post their website for perusal. https://blacklivesmatter.uk/official-statement
If you disagree with their aims then sorry if you’re not racist what exactly are you?

This is starting to stray off topic but 1) there appears to be a gamut of organisations/people claiming to be the voice for ‘BLM’ in the UK [as the ‘official’ BLM UK have been forced to state] ‘no I’m the real BLM UK’ so it’s not one homogenous group = it’s impossible to state with any conviction what this or that groups claiming to be ‘BLM’ stands for 2) a lot of the sentiments behind BLM UK (or groups purporting to be) is based on critical race theory which is ‘problematic’ to say the least as it is essentially the idea that all white people are racist and if they say they aren’t then they definitely are (I personally consider that both an extremely offensive & Orwellian theory which is why I don’t and won’t ever support [capital letters] BLM organisations but that’s doesn’t make me a racist).

What people I think people object to is the way the debate has been framed = ‘support BLM or you are a racist’ – I don’t donate or directly support the RSPCA but that doesn’t make me an animal abuser - in fact I absolutely detest people who abuse helpless animals…

So now we are comparing black people to animals you really couldn't write this stuff

UPTHEPORT wrote:So now we are comparing black people to animals you really couldn't write this stuff

whoa there! not what I was saying at all and think you knew that I'll put that down to a cheeky grenade into the debate as opposed to anything more. I happen to have a BAME wife so am about as far from racist as you could get [I hope?] nobody's perfect of course and we all miss step but of course I wasn't comparing anyone to 'animals' I was just illustrating my point - I could have said I think guide dogs are amazing and give blind people a new lease of life (which I do think) but I don't support the guide dogs charity - that doesn't make me anti blind people (etc.) RSPCA was just an example of course...

CathedralCounty wrote:

UPTHEPORT wrote:So now we are comparing black people to animals you really couldn't write this stuff

whoa there! not what I was saying at all and think you knew that I'll put that down to a cheeky grenade into the debate as opposed to anything more. I happen to have a BAME wife so am about as far from racist as you could get [I hope?] nobody's perfect of course and we all miss step but of course I wasn't comparing anyone to 'animals' I was just illustrating my point - I could have said I think guide dogs are amazing and give blind people a new lease of life (which I do think) but I don't support the guide dogs charity - that doesn't make me anti blind people (etc.) RSPCA was just an example of course...

having re read my post think its missing some punctuation as the RSPCA bit does follow right on from the BLM bit so, although I think you went in a bit two footed, can sort of see how it may have appeared = not quite a p'd off as I was a few minutes ago and if you genuinely did read it as me comparing black people to animals (which we've established I wasn't) then of course you'd be right to be irked by it...

CathedralCounty wrote:

lowandhard wrote:

UPTHEPORT wrote:It makes me laugh that the ones moaning about BLM and the knee are saying it's far left politics

So am just guessing they are from the right and white and never experienced racist abuse or being stopped because of their colour skin

Well said mate, as someone mentioned earlier that BLM was extreme left, wanted to dismantle the police force etc etc and whatever other lies they can dream up to discredit racial equality, I thought I’d post their website for perusal. https://blacklivesmatter.uk/official-statement
If you disagree with their aims then sorry if you’re not racist what exactly are you?

This is starting to stray off topic but 1) there appears to be a gamut of organisations/people claiming to be the voice for ‘BLM’ in the UK [as the ‘official’ BLM UK have been forced to state] ‘no I’m the real BLM UK’ so it’s not one homogenous group = it’s impossible to state with any conviction what this or that groups claiming to be ‘BLM’ stands for 2) a lot of the sentiments behind BLM UK (or groups purporting to be) is based on critical race theory which is ‘problematic’ to say the least as it is essentially the idea that all white people are racist and if they say they aren’t then they definitely are (I personally consider that both an extremely offensive & Orwellian theory which is why I don’t and won’t ever support [capital letters] BLM organisations but that’s doesn’t make me a racist).

What people I think people object to is the way the debate has been framed = ‘support BLM or you are a racist’ – I don’t donate or directly support the RSPCA but that doesn’t make me an animal abuser - in fact I absolutely detest people who abuse helpless animals…

You put it more succinctly and eloquently than I could. I don't want this insidious and divisive group anywhere near football or indeed society if I had my way. That doesn't mean I'm a racist. If players/organisations say they're taking the knee as a stance against anti-racism then more fool them for purposely conflating the act with the message. That is infact the genius of this organisation because it's very difficult to disagree/critique with Black Lives Matter as an organisation because it infers that you think black lives don't matter. When that couldn't be further from the case for the vast majority of people.

CathedralCounty wrote:

CathedralCounty wrote:

UPTHEPORT wrote:So now we are comparing black people to animals you really couldn't write this stuff

whoa there! not what I was saying at all and think you knew that I'll put that down to a cheeky grenade into the debate as opposed to anything more. I happen to have a BAME wife so am about as far from racist as you could get [I hope?] nobody's perfect of course and we all miss step but of course I wasn't comparing anyone to 'animals' I was just illustrating my point - I could have said I think guide dogs are amazing and give blind people a new lease of life (which I do think) but I don't support the guide dogs charity - that doesn't make me anti blind people (etc.) RSPCA was just an example of course...

having re read my post think its missing some punctuation as the RSPCA bit does follow right on from the BLM bit so, although I think you went in a bit two footed, can sort of see how it may have appeared = not quite a p'd off as I was a few minutes ago and if you genuinely did read it as me comparing black people to animals (which we've established I wasn't) then of course you'd be right to be irked by it...

You weren't comparing black people with animals. That's obvious from your post.

Countymax wrote:

CathedralCounty wrote:

CathedralCounty wrote:

UPTHEPORT wrote:So now we are comparing black people to animals you really couldn't write this stuff

whoa there! not what I was saying at all and think you knew that I'll put that down to a cheeky grenade into the debate as opposed to anything more. I happen to have a BAME wife so am about as far from racist as you could get [I hope?] nobody's perfect of course and we all miss step but of course I wasn't comparing anyone to 'animals' I was just illustrating my point - I could have said I think guide dogs are amazing and give blind people a new lease of life (which I do think) but I don't support the guide dogs charity - that doesn't make me anti blind people (etc.) RSPCA was just an example of course...

having re read my post think its missing some punctuation as the RSPCA bit does follow right on from the BLM bit so, although I think you went in a bit two footed, can sort of see how it may have appeared = not quite a p'd off as I was a few minutes ago and if you genuinely did read it as me comparing black people to animals (which we've established I wasn't) then of course you'd be right to be irked by it...

You weren't comparing black people with animals. That's obvious from your post.

A huge +1, even without the tweaked punctuation!!

CathedralCounty wrote:
As far as the car/wealth thing you are possibly misunderstanding mine and others points – if a young black man from a normal background with a normal job stood up (or kneeled down) and spoke to me on their situation and experiences with say the police I would be far more likely to respect, listen to and understand their views than that of a cosseted multi-millionaire footballer/F1 driver or whatever of whatever skin colour.

And how does that hypothetical young black man find his voice?

JonD wrote:

CathedralCounty wrote:
As far as the car/wealth thing you are possibly misunderstanding mine and others points – if a young black man from a normal background with a normal job stood up (or kneeled down) and spoke to me on their situation and experiences with say the police I would be far more likely to respect, listen to and understand their views than that of a cosseted multi-millionaire footballer/F1 driver or whatever of whatever skin colour.

And how does that hypothetical young black man find his voice?

Apart from aforementioned and controversial BLM/blm movements, erm I'll take a punt on...local/national politics, writing to MP, arts/media outlets (online as well as traditional), music, comedy, local activism, etc. same way/or not as I guess a poor white kid from Alway might/might not? If we're honest class not race is the dirty little secret of the UK (to an extent being young and male of any racial origin especially if from lower social classes, is 'an issue' as young men are demonised / not supported at every turn too)

Are you suggesting that, for example, MPs are unaware of social injustice? Presumably not. So what should these disenfranchised people say in their letters?

I'm being a bit facetious there. I don't have answers. This whole class/race situation seems entrenched.

But coming back to the "knee" thing, I agree with those saying it's not the answer, and it's simply preaching to the converted.

The sheer hypocrisy of it makes me [almost] laugh - players & pundits lecturing to fans while endorsing & wearing kits & boots made by poorly paid workers in Asia - kicking a football that may well have been made by child labour in India in front of advertising hoardings advertising hardly saintly sponsors! (alcohol, betting, polluting energy companies, etc.) ‘make sure you’re not immoral or naughty guys but WE can take the sponsors coin no problem’ – I get there is no mutual exclusivity but even so – its rather rich of the players/pundits to do so!

Whilst I abhor being preached to by hypocritical players, Gareth Southgate etc, there is actually a campaign I now agree with. There is a campaign to stop online hate, called Stop Online Abuse. I believe it was started by Arsenal. This is obviously needs the help of Twitter & it’s like, so will probably be strangled at birth, but a worthwhile campaign nonetheless.