Torquay Exile wrote:

Mr Figo wrote:

Torquay Exile wrote:

Jonesy3 wrote:

owlsabout wrote:Http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44255428

That's pretty much what I said. A survey of supporters, but there's never been an official vote of Trust members to change the ownership model.

Found the stuff from the open meeting on 30th January last year (I know it's sad I keep this stuff - my missus uses words other than 'sad'!). The bit in the sheet left on everyone's seat said this:

Q: What is happening with the ownership model?
A: As explained at the last open meeting, a workshop for Trust members on the ownership model was poorly attended and there was no real appetite among those who did attend for a change to the current ownership model. Therefore, the Board’s focus has moved to other matters. That is not to say, however, that any offer for the club would not be seriously considered by the Board and, if appropriate, put to a vote of Trust members.

I have already stated that someone had some ideas, but unfortunately, I can't disclose those ideas. I had to agree to a non-disclosure. It would be a good idea to put together our group of people (like a committee independent of the club).

Why not raise the issue at the next meeting or contact the Trust to put it on the agenda if you are a Trust Member.

I shouldn't have to ask the trust to get involved. Does the trust need to get involved? We need an independent committee, don't you agree?

Mr Figo wrote:

Torquay Exile wrote:

Mr Figo wrote:

Torquay Exile wrote:

Jonesy3 wrote:

owlsabout wrote:Http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44255428

That's pretty much what I said. A survey of supporters, but there's never been an official vote of Trust members to change the ownership model.

Found the stuff from the open meeting on 30th January last year (I know it's sad I keep this stuff - my missus uses words other than 'sad'!). The bit in the sheet left on everyone's seat said this:

Q: What is happening with the ownership model?
A: As explained at the last open meeting, a workshop for Trust members on the ownership model was poorly attended and there was no real appetite among those who did attend for a change to the current ownership model. Therefore, the Board’s focus has moved to other matters. That is not to say, however, that any offer for the club would not be seriously considered by the Board and, if appropriate, put to a vote of Trust members.

I have already stated that someone had some ideas, but unfortunately, I can't disclose those ideas. I had to agree to a non-disclosure. It would be a good idea to put together our group of people (like a committee independent of the club).

Why not raise the issue at the next meeting or contact the Trust to put it on the agenda if you are a Trust Member.

I shouldn't have to ask the trust to get involved. Does the trust need to get involved? We need an independent committee, don't you agree?

To do what?

DeePeeNCAFC wrote:Interesting debate, and from the above, two very different opinions.

I think much of the anti-Flynn stuff arises because he doesn’t seem a very nice guy in interviews etc and can seem a bit stuck in his ways. The same traits that made many managers successful.

On the point of whether the club is financially stable, I personally think we’re just treading water - we literally have no assets of note, other than a few kits, balls and a 3-bed terraced house in Newport for new players to kip. No stadium, no training ground, no players of note we could sell. This makes the club less of a good business for investors, banks etc to throw money at. We have a small hard-core of supporters who will buy STs, kits etc and an occasion good cup run to keep the bank manager onside. We really need the council to give us a plot of unusable land with which we can build a small stadium of our own relatively cheaply otherwise we’ll be forever renting and struggling to attract good players because of the poor facilities.

jonescmj1 wrote:

DeePeeNCAFC wrote:
Quite the opposite, most clubs have negative net worth including those with grounds as assets.

Torquay Exile wrote:

Mr Figo wrote:

Torquay Exile wrote:

Mr Figo wrote:

Torquay Exile wrote:

Jonesy3 wrote:

owlsabout wrote:Http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44255428

That's pretty much what I said. A survey of supporters, but there's never been an official vote of Trust members to change the ownership model.

Found the stuff from the open meeting on 30th January last year (I know it's sad I keep this stuff - my missus uses words other than 'sad'!). The bit in the sheet left on everyone's seat said this:

Q: What is happening with the ownership model?
A: As explained at the last open meeting, a workshop for Trust members on the ownership model was poorly attended and there was no real appetite among those who did attend for a change to the current ownership model. Therefore, the Board’s focus has moved to other matters. That is not to say, however, that any offer for the club would not be seriously considered by the Board and, if appropriate, put to a vote of Trust members.

I have already stated that someone had some ideas, but unfortunately, I can't disclose those ideas. I had to agree to a non-disclosure. It would be a good idea to put together our group of people (like a committee independent of the club).

Why not raise the issue at the next meeting or contact the Trust to put it on the agenda if you are a Trust Member.

I shouldn't have to ask the trust to get involved. Does the trust need to get involved? We need an independent committee, don't you agree?

To do what?

In the words of UPTHEPORT "you just couldn't make it up". Your so funny .

UPTHEPORT wrote:




Can't believe you're comment tbh let's have another committee to look into other committees

You couldn't make it up

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

UPTHEPORT wrote:




Can't believe you're comment tbh let's have another committee to look into other committees

You couldn't make it up

Morning Jim,

My problem here is that I find it unfair when people hint that they know something but are unwilling to make the allegation.

Further the allegations seem to be of a more serious nature. It is one thing to call out incompetence which on occasions we are all guilty of, but with malpractice a far greater accusation is made.

I am often critical of the ridiculous amount of secrecy emanating from the club. It would be wrong not to call it out when posters do exactly the same.

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

jonescmj1 wrote:

DeePeeNCAFC wrote:
Quite the opposite, most clubs have negative net worth including those with grounds as assets.

I genuinely don't know. On what basis do you make this assertion?

Edit.

On a similar discussion some years ago it was asserted by many, and I suspect believed by more, that VAT was charged on match tickets. A cursory glance at the Government website would inform any with an interest that sporting event tickets are VAT exempt.

As any small business will tell you expenses that can be legitimately claimed for before a tax on profits can quickly turn an actual profit into a paper trading loss. If football clubs were all in the financial mess they claim scores would go bankrupt. We are always told it's about to happen but year in year out it doesn't.

UPTHEPORT wrote:

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

UPTHEPORT wrote:




Can't believe you're comment tbh let's have another committee to look into other committees

You couldn't make it up

Morning Jim,

My problem here is that I find it unfair when people hint that they know something but are unwilling to make the allegation.

Further the allegations seem to be of a more serious nature. It is one thing to call out incompetence which on occasions we are all guilty of, but with malpractice a far greater accusation is made.

I am often critical of the ridiculous amount of secrecy emanating from the club. It would be wrong not to call it out when posters do exactly the same.

Ok then who keeps an eye on those keeping an eye and so on

DeePeeNCAFC wrote:

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

jonescmj1 wrote:

DeePeeNCAFC wrote:
Quite the opposite, most clubs have negative net worth including those with grounds as assets.

I genuinely don't know. On what basis do you make this assertion?

Edit.

On a similar discussion some years ago it was asserted by many, and I suspect believed by more, that VAT was charged on match tickets. A cursory glance at the Government website would inform any with an interest that sporting event tickets are VAT exempt.

As any small business will tell you expenses that can be legitimately claimed for before a tax on profits can quickly turn an actual profit into a paper trading loss. If football clubs were all in the financial mess they claim scores would go bankrupt. We are always told it's about to happen but year in year out it doesn't.

I can confirm, beyond any doubt, that HMG takes 20% of all ticket sales from all bulbs who are VAT registered (so almost all clubs even at non league levels, based on an annual turnover of around £80k pa). VAT is due on practically everything the club does and all its income from subs paid by academy and development squad players through to shirt sales.

As a former VAT inspector (many years ago) I once visited a current Lge2 club who had unpaid VAT debts and, with the help of a bailiff, removed their goalposts, stocks of kit, and even the DJ equipment in their social club.

owlsabout wrote:I recall certain directors Mr Ward and Mr Crook saying that the club cannot run on cup money alone as it is not viable. This was after our first cup exploits and since then we have made millions from these runs. The board proposed a hybrid model of delivery and we voted in favour of this (by 75%) at which time the chairman said it was the best way forward. Nothing has happened with this and whilst the pandemic may have delayed this work we have heard nothing. Is this because we now have enough money in the bank due to cup runs we don’t need outside investment? Have Mr Crook, Ward and Foxhall changed their minds? If so why hasn’t this been transparent to us the fans? Especially as we are a fans based club and we voted so how can they change their minds if this is what has happened. If we have enough money in the bank then why are the team having to train on pitches around the area, downright embarrassing and you can appreciate why our manager gets frustrated. We are meant to be a league two club with big ambitions for moving forward and yet off the field we are still running like a non-league club and in many ways we probably operated more efficiently as a non league club than we do as a professional league club

According to the UK Government website Revenue section: tickets for sporting events are exempt from VAT.
Perhaps the 'many years ago' maybe the clue?

County Exile wrote:Stan.A.Einstein wrote:-

According to the UK Government website Revenue section: tickets for sporting events are exempt from VAT.
Perhaps the 'many years ago' maybe the clue?

Do you have a link to where on the Government website you saw this?

I am also "many years ago" ex HMRC (although admittedly Revenue not Customs) and it was always my understanding that match tickets were standard rated for VAT (as opposed to venue hire fees which were exempt) and from a quick scan of the gov.uk website can't see anything to suggest that has changed.

On July 8, the government announced a temporary reduction in VAT for admission to events and attractions including theatres, concerts, museums and amusement parks.

A reduction in VAT from the standard rate of 20% to 5% will be in effect from July 15 to January 12, 2021. However, the government made clear that this reduction does not apply to admission to sporting events and fixtures.

Admission charges for spectators Standard-rated

Stan A. Einstein wrote:

County Exile wrote:Stan.A.Einstein wrote:-

According to the UK Government website Revenue section: tickets for sporting events are exempt from VAT.
Perhaps the 'many years ago' maybe the clue?

Do you have a link to where on the Government website you saw this?

I am also "many years ago" ex HMRC (although admittedly Revenue not Customs) and it was always my understanding that match tickets were standard rated for VAT (as opposed to venue hire fees which were exempt) and from a quick scan of the gov.uk website can't see anything to suggest that has changed.

I just googled are sporting tickets subject to VAT and was directed to the site.