Re: Flynn Years

76
mad norm wrote:No disrespect, but can't you two communicate by email?
It is a discussion about financing Newport County. It may or may not be of interest to other readers. Who may or may not wish to comment or add to the discussion.

I have no interest in what ex Newport County players are doing. Others do, see the thread. Because I have no interest in what ex Newport County players are doing I don't read that thread. I don't post up that those supporters should carry on their conversation by email.

No disrespect Norm, but if a topic doesn't interest you, rather than being rude, why not try being silent?

Re: Flynn Years

77
Actually Norm let me give you a considered reply.

Colin Jones is a fanatical Newport County supporter. He has an idea which he believes will produce an income stream for Newport County. Both those statements are fact. In my opinion that makes whatever Colin wishes to raise a legitimate topic of discussion on this board.

Without rehearsing the reasons, I don't believe Colin's ideas will work. However I could be wrong.

Colin, as he is quite entitled to do asked me to draft a legal document which he believes necessary for his scheme to work. I have told him I can't do this and why.

Now I know other lawyers read this board. It might be the case that one of those lawyers might be willing to draft the NDA Colin requires. And if that happens and in addition, if I am wrong and Colin's scheme does have legs, then perhaps Newport County will have the advantage of an almost limited income scheme.

But all that should be sacrificed because a man who seems to believe that serious discussions about our football club, our passion are added to, with remarks about Doris and her bunions also believes he can judge what should and should not be publicly aired.

Come on Norm. I don't think Colin's scheme will work but I commend him at least for trying.

Re: Flynn Years

78
I commend Collins commitment to the 'Port.
In all different ways we are fanatical, how I Cherish those days yelling myself hoarse at Somerton Park.
I follow avidly the mostly informative posts on this forum, I also reserve the right to post fun comments.
Being of an artistic bent I'm always looking round corners.
In my own small way I've offered some help on two or three occasions the latest was an offer of free sellable items.. None was taken up and it frustrates me.
We have an amazing fan base and I salute you all.

Re: Flynn Years

79
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
mad norm wrote:No disrespect, but can't you two communicate by email?
It is a discussion about financing Newport County. It may or may not be of interest to other readers. Who may or may not wish to comment or add to the discussion.

I have no interest in what ex Newport County players are doing. Others do, see the thread. Because I have no interest in what ex Newport County players are doing I don't read that thread. I don't post up that those supporters should carry on their conversation by email.

No disrespect Norm, but if a topic doesn't interest you, rather than being rude, why not try being silent?
However, the thread about ex County players is entitled "News about ex Newport County players", but this one is called "Flynn Years". Why not keep to the topic so we can can decide whether or not we're interested without wading through pages of irrelevant posts.

Re: Flynn Years

80
Blackandamber wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
mad norm wrote:No disrespect, but can't you two communicate by email?
It is a discussion about financing Newport County. It may or may not be of interest to other readers. Who may or may not wish to comment or add to the discussion.

I have no interest in what ex Newport County players are doing. Others do, see the thread. Because I have no interest in what ex Newport County players are doing I don't read that thread. I don't post up that those supporters should carry on their conversation by email.

No disrespect Norm, but if a topic doesn't interest you, rather than being rude, why not try being silent?
However, the thread about ex County players is entitled "News about ex Newport County players", but this one is called "Flynn Years". Why not keep to the topic so we can can decide whether or not we're interested without wading through pages of irrelevant posts.
Flynn years would tend to suggest March 2017 up to the present day. As for your post perhaps you should start a new thread entitled.....

Today I shall be mostly whining about Stan.....

Which is nice....... :grin:

Colin Vs Stan (from Flynn Years)

81
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
Blackandamber wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
mad norm wrote:No disrespect, but can't you two communicate by email?
It is a discussion about financing Newport County. It may or may not be of interest to other readers. Who may or may not wish to comment or add to the discussion.

I have no interest in what ex Newport County players are doing. Others do, see the thread. Because I have no interest in what ex Newport County players are doing I don't read that thread. I don't post up that those supporters should carry on their conversation by email.

No disrespect Norm, but if a topic doesn't interest you, rather than being rude, why not try being silent?
However, the thread about ex County players is entitled "News about ex Newport County players", but this one is called "Flynn Years". Why not keep to the topic so we can can decide whether or not we're interested without wading through pages of irrelevant posts.
Flynn years would tend to suggest March 2017 up to the present day. As for your post perhaps you should start a new thread entitled.....

Today I shall be mostly whining about Stan.....

Which is nice....... :grin:
Hears to Flynn's years
Both the left and the right
One day we praise him
The next day he's shi*e

Re: Flynn Years

82
Stan A. Einstein wrote:Colin,

I don't think that your scheme will work. It seems to rely on using volunteers in order to make a profit. Nonetheless I genuinely hope I'm wrong and I certainly make no criticism of your trying to raise funds.

I won't be able to assist you in drawing up an NDA. I was an immigration and criminal defence lawyer. I simply don't have the skill set. If I did have those drafting skills I still wouldn't because I would be liable if I were to make a mistake. When I was in practise I had to pay thousands of pounds to indemnify myself. And this is where I believe that you don't think things through. Two reasons why I could not under any circumstances assist you.

You see the upside, in that there is a lawyer who supports Newport County. You fail to see the downside in that I can't help and in the real world if you want a legal document drawn up you are going to have to pay for it. My fear is that there are always hidden costs in any business venture. You seem to have a mindset where these can be overcome by using the goodwill of County supporters. In my opinion that is just wishful thinking.

Finally. And please take this in the spirit in which it's sent. You are very thin skinned and get upset when difficulties are pointed out to you. I certainly don't think that you are crazy but if your idea does have legs you need to persuade people and take them with you. During the course of this thread you have stated I have been humiliated, called me stupid and a crook. You then ask me to help you. Don't worry about that, I was called much worse by my mother and she loved me. But if you take that attitude with the directors of the trust you're not going to endear yourself to your proposed business partners.

Best of luck though in any event.

Brendan

Fair comment re NDA! The scheme does work, we are one of the largest suppliers of goods to the soap and bath bomb makers in the Ozzy market, with almost $2m turnover. Not including the other 6 businesses, working a 4 day week.


So the business is definitely transferable.


Is there anyone willing to draft an NDA between our company and an interested Newport entity?

Re: Flynn Years

83
jonescmj1 wrote:
Fair comment re NDA! The scheme does work, we are one of the largest suppliers of goods to the soap and bath bomb makers in the Ozzy market, with almost $2m turnover. Not including the other 6 businesses, working a 4 day week.


So the business is definitely transferable.


Is there anyone willing to draft an NDA between our company and an interested Newport entity?
Colin,

I am trying to help you here. Let us assume your business idea is a good one. And that it would provide a game changing income stream for Newport County.

You tell us that you are certain of this because you can see just how lucrative this business is in Australia.

Do you not see the initial problem you are making for everyone else? A competent solicitor who works in the field of drawing up legal documents would do so for a few hundred pounds. Any reasonable person is going to ask, if Colin Jones can't afford to pay such a minimal initial expense what's the problem? Is it he hasn't got the money? In which case it's not such a good idea. Or is it he is not prepared to risk a few hundred pounds? Well if Colin Jones doesn't have confidence in his idea, why should we?

Your businesses are internet based. I don't understand why you just don't set up in the UK and contribute some or all of the profits to Newport County.

Best of luck,

Stan/Brendan

PS, Happy Birthday :drunken: :grin:

Re: Flynn Years

84
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
jonescmj1 wrote:
Fair comment re NDA! The scheme does work, we are one of the largest suppliers of goods to the soap and bath bomb makers in the Ozzy market, with almost $2m turnover. Not including the other 6 businesses, working a 4 day week.


So the business is definitely transferable.


Is there anyone willing to draft an NDA between our company and an interested Newport entity?
Colin,

I am trying to help you here. Let us assume your business idea is a good one. And that it would provide a game changing income stream for Newport County.

You tell us that you are certain of this because you can see just how lucrative this business is in Australia.

Do you not see the initial problem you are making for everyone else? A competent solicitor who works in the field of drawing up legal documents would do so for a few hundred pounds. Any reasonable person is going to ask, if Colin Jones can't afford to pay such a minimal initial expense what's the problem? Is it he hasn't got the money? In which case it's not such a good idea. Or is it he is not prepared to risk a few hundred pounds? Well if Colin Jones doesn't have confidence in his idea, why should we?

Your businesses are internet based. I don't understand why you just don't set up in the UK and contribute some or all of the profits to Newport County.

Best of luck,

Stan/Brendan

PS, Happy Birthday :drunken: :grin:
The simple answer is my, 'My husband has no interest whatsoever, in Newport County' The money is not mine but ours, if I go behind his back I am being deceitful, hence why I want the small initial investment to be from a Newport based entity. I can then offer our time and expertise, gratis. It's really that simple.


Similarly, you could draft an NDA Pro bono and include a disclaimer, or give guidance to someone else drafting an NDA. If you can't do that whilst ensuring you protect yourself, I'm gobsmacked.

Thanks for the birthday wishes, it's much appreciated. Read Lushes p&Ls and remove the brisks and mortar overhead, pr ask an accountant to walk through them with you. I'm hoping to catch up with BignBeefy when interstate free travel is restored. He, I believe has a set of skills sufficient to assess the potential.

Kind Regards,

Colin

Re: Flynn Years

85
jonescmj1 wrote:
The simple answer is my, 'My husband has no interest whatsoever, in Newport County' The money is not mine but ours, if I go behind his back I am being deceitful, hence why I want the small initial investment to be from a Newport based entity. I can then offer our time and expertise, gratis. It's really that simple.


Similarly, you could draft an NDA Pro bono and include a disclaimer, or give guidance to someone else drafting an NDA. If you can't do that whilst ensuring you protect yourself, I'm gobsmacked.

Thanks for the birthday wishes, it's much appreciated. Read Lushes p&Ls and remove the brisks and mortar overhead, pr ask an accountant to walk through them with you. I'm hoping to catch up with BignBeefy when interstate free travel is restored. He, I believe has a set of skills sufficient to assess the potential.

Kind Regards,

Colin
Colin,

A number of points. You claim that you can't spend any money because it belongs not to you but to you and your husband. I think you'll find that most of us regard common ownership means 50% of the finances belong to each. If you really believe that you require you husband's consent to spend at most $600 out of a turnover of between $1,000,000 to $2,000,000 then I am truly gobsmacked. Further although your husband as no interest in Newport County he is on your account willing to lend his expertise. Sorry Colin that part of your reply simply doesn't hold water.

I have no intention of drafting a Non Disclosure Agreement for you. Firstly I can't simply waive accountability for my actions. Secondly, I don't have the skill set. Although this concept appears straightforward to me I will explain it by analogy. To ask me to draft an NDA would be akin to asking a plumber to lay bricks. After all their both in the building trade. Thirdly as I have said from what I have seen of your scheme it relies on people working for nothing. I'm all in favour of volunteers but they have to be supernumerary. Your idea, as I see it, can only work if people offer their labour for nothing. That is not a basis on which a business should be predicated. It is certainly the type of venture I would have nothing to do with.

Colin I think your heart's in the right place but frankly I really do think you need to re-evaluate this idea.

Re: Flynn Years

86
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
jonescmj1 wrote:
The simple answer is my, 'My husband has no interest whatsoever, in Newport County' The money is not mine but ours, if I go behind his back I am being deceitful, hence why I want the small initial investment to be from a Newport based entity. I can then offer our time and expertise, gratis. It's really that simple.


Similarly, you could draft an NDA Pro bono and include a disclaimer, or give guidance to someone else drafting an NDA. If you can't do that whilst ensuring you protect yourself, I'm gobsmacked.

Thanks for the birthday wishes, it's much appreciated. Read Lushes p&Ls and remove the brisks and mortar overhead, pr ask an accountant to walk through them with you. I'm hoping to catch up with BignBeefy when interstate free travel is restored. He, I believe has a set of skills sufficient to assess the potential.

Kind Regards,

Colin
Colin,

A number of points. You claim that you can't spend any money because it belongs not to you but to you and your husband. I think you'll find that most of us regard common ownership means 50% of the finances belong to each. If you really believe that you require you husband's consent to spend at most $600 out of a turnover of between $1,000,000 to $2,000,000 then I am truly gobsmacked. Further although your husband as no interest in Newport County he is on your account willing to lend his expertise. Sorry Colin that part of your reply simply doesn't hold water.

I have no intention of drafting a Non Disclosure Agreement for you. Firstly I can't simply waive accountability for my actions. Secondly, I don't have the skill set. Although this concept appears straightforward to me I will explain it by analogy. To ask me to draft an NDA would be akin to asking a plumber to lay bricks. After all their both in the building trade. Thirdly as I have said from what I have seen of your scheme it relies on people working for nothing. I'm all in favour of volunteers but they have to be supernumerary. Your idea, as I see it, can only work if people offer their labour for nothing. That is not a basis on which a business should be predicated. It is certainly the type of venture I would have nothing to do with.

Colin I think your heart's in the right place but frankly I really do think you need to re-evaluate this idea.
An NDA can be drafted for free, by simply searching the internet! Your claim you can't draft an NDA is bollox, you could safely oversee it's drafting for another entity. The volunteers would be working to fund the club they love until the return supported payment of salaries, that's called job creation. I respect my husband wholeheartedly, but telling him he will lose UK sales to a company advised by himself is a tough sell. Once again when the opportunity arises, you pick to find holes in a rational offer. This is your track record, meanwhile, some of us turn words into action. You on the other hand turn actions into fractions. Now piss off and let those who really support and help the City of Newport do something! Regards unpretentious Colin Arnfield-Jones, not poncy self-loving destructive, narcissistic, Brendan O'Dickhead. Kiss, kiss, kiss. You can call me anything you like but I will not give your response any airtime. B=ye.

Re: Flynn Years

87
mad norm wrote:I commend Collins commitment to the 'Port.
In all different ways we are fanatical, how I Cherish those days yelling myself hoarse at Somerton Park.
I follow avidly the mostly informative posts on this forum, I also reserve the right to post fun comments.
Being of an artistic bent I'm always looking round corners.
In my own small way I've offered some help on two or three occasions the latest was an offer of free sellable items.. None was taken up and it frustrates me.
We have an amazing fan base and I salute you all.
I've had the same response and without looking like a dick, I'm one of the World's top Direct Marketers. Worked on the name change for The Sapstics Society. Worked in Sales and Marketing for Black & Decker, Worked for Akzo Nobel on the Sikkens brand, worked for the Head of the Direct marketing Association, in the USA. etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
]https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinjones2009/

Re: Flynn Years

90
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
County123456789 wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
County123456789 wrote:
Stan A. Einstein wrote:
George Street-Bridge wrote:None of these points, of course, is one I've made.

FWIW I think a lot of blame lies in leagues being too lax on ownership rules and - not exactly blame - football clubs can and do draw on generations of local affection and goodwill which other dysfunctional businesses can't.
Try answering the question.

If clubs are losing money, year in year out, how do they stay in business?
Comparing football clubs to normal businesses is pointless. Businesses go bust because people try things and for various reasons they do well, do ok, or they fail, with most businesses failing.

Football clubs stay in business because they constantly get bailed out its a simple as that. mainly because for the societal aspect where people will go over and beyond to save football clubs in a way that they wouldnt do for a normal business where it would be pointless to flog a dead horse.

Then there is the effect of the help football clubs get that other business don’t, not least not having to pay volunteers. Not that i would pay a salary to any of our directors but imagine a business where all the managers who run it work for free. And where people who love the business work for free like volunteers do for football clubs.

You only have to look at our football club as a prime example. We like most clubs would go bust over and over again if it wasn’t for being bailed out. In our case over and over again by the likes of les scalding, by the fans on more than one occasion and so on and so on.

Its that simple really and you just cant compare a football club with a normal commercial business.
George,

If the clubs are losing money they can't pay the bills. If you can't pay your bills you go bust. Somehow all these clubs manage to pay their bills. Which if you're losing money you can't do. And to say clubs get bailed out over and over again is total nonsense.

Anybody who has run a business knows that the number of claims you can make to on paper lower your income is huge. I've never run a football club but I was self employed. This is how it works George.

I needed to read the law reports. My newspapers were therefore tax deductible. I needed a mobile phone for work, my mobile phone was tax deductible. If I went of a trip to Trier on an EU course, that too was tax deductible. (I attended a few lectures but mainly had a holiday on the Mozelle. Tax deductible. And even back then 50p on the mile travelled was deductible from my tax.

In over 20 years at the Bar I made a good living, on paper I was just scraping by . Oddly my late father was self employed. We were not rich but had a very comfortable middle class lifestyle. Guess what. I got a full grant to do my first degree because my father's accountant could show a much lower paper income than was the reality. And of course even the accountant who saves you thousands is tax deductible.

My guess is football clubs are pretty much doing the same.
Hello Stan

There are a few flaws in your argument that i hope you don’t mind pointing out. Firstly you keep calling me George and my name is Steve! Secondly I do run a business which is now entering is 37th year so have seen it all from a accountancy viewpoint and what can and can be claimed for

Apologies is I’ve missed the jist of the debate but you seemed to be saying that its a mystery why more clubs don’t go bust compared to a normal business. My answer is that football clubs get bailed out ands saved where normal business wouldn’t. Our own club is an example. Lose money, fans bail it out. Lose money Les bails it out. It’s the same for clubs everywhere at our level. Most football clubs lose money but stay alive because its a labour of love to all involved.

Its quite straightforward and far from nonsense, in my view anyway. Plus I respectfully think you may have a lack of understanding of the difference between accounting principles and cash flow.
Steve,

Forgive me for meeting both your points and George's in the same reply. However I don't agree with your analysis either.

Les Scadding didn't bail us out. What he did was financed the buying of players, which were able to win promotion to the Football League. My view remains that the monies ploughed into Newport County by Lotto Les would have been much better utilized building up a proper infrastructure.

Secondly bailing out over and over again. Well if fans choose to put some money into the club, that is still income for the club. Your argument is totally flawed because if customers are putting money into your business, they are putting money into your business. Broken down your argument seems to be but for the goodwill of supporters clubs would go bust. Which is true, but that applies to every business. Likewise volunteers. I have no doubt volunteers save clubs money but they don't create income. In terms you might lose money if you didn't have volunteers but as you do you are not losing money.

Further and perhaps more contentiously I would argue that if directors of football clubs only used these extra contributions on fixed assets, i.e. infrastructure rather than wasting assets, i.e. inflated wages for players, football in general would be far healthier.

Cash flow is interesting. There is an awful lot of cash swilling about in football. It is why too many clubs have been swindled. I agree with you if the point you are making is that many potentially going concerns fail because of a problem with cashflow, and I agree football clubs don't by and large have that problem. However regardless of cashflow, if a company is losing money, it will go bust. I agree you can lose money in the occasional year, and I agree that a startup may initially run at a loss, but no business can lose money year in year out and survive.

Finally as you run your own business ask yourself these two questions. And this is for you alone your financial circumstances are none of my business. What is the difference between you gross income and your income declared for tax purposes? And more importantly, how much of my expenditure which you claim as tax deductible, would I have to spend anyway if I were not self employed?

Best wishes,

Brendan
Hello Brendan
Sorry I must have missed your reply. I do have to disagree with you strongly because fans and directors putting money into a club is not the same as normal operating income and is probably the key point which explains why football clubs do not go bust like normal businesses.

If a club spends 1 million but only receives 800 thousand in operating income then it has made an operating loss of 200 grand. If a benefactor loans or gifts the 200 grand shortfall then the club has still made a 200 grand operating loss despite the club not actually being 200 grand down.

So when you asked the question ‘clubs are losing money, year in year out, how do they stay in business’, the type of thing I have exampled is a reason why clubs lose money but stay in business.

Cheers, Steve

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: OLDCROMWELLIAN