lowandhard wrote: May 14th, 2022, 4:27 pm

Stan A. Einstein wrote: May 14th, 2022, 2:02 pm

lowandhard wrote: May 14th, 2022, 1:38 pm

Well, there’s an element of truth in what you say perhaps but he’s a very young man and all young men make mistakes. The rôle of older and supposedly wiser men who mentor and manage them is to guide them onto a wiser path. In my opinion the lad had heaps of talent and to squander his and Dom Jefferies talents in short order is profligacy on a grand scale. I well remember a newspaper headline early in one young player’s career that read “ there’s a question mark over Hoddle “ after p!ssing myself laughing at the writer’s stupidity, I wondered what the f¥cking question might have been! The untalented always seem willing to despise the talented.

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the pm. I'll reply tomorrow. Too much of the old footie today. Cup final followed by Sligo v St Patrick's Athletic. A few quick points from this post.

Quite right about young men making mistakes. Although I forget who pointed out that the follies of youth are as nothing compared to the follies of age. As we both know a point not entirely without merit.

Agree again re the untalented despise those with talent. Then again knowing how much certain posters on here clearly despise me I suppose I would.

However I remember the best part of 40 years ago spending an entire evening in a pub with a Spurs supporting friend debating Glen Hoddle. My views haven't changed much since. My friend was of the view that Hoddle was just about perfect. My view was that he was exceptionally talented and would walk into any team. But I also though for someone with his talent he perhaps he didn't impose himself on games quite as much as he should have.

I recall when football was first shown live on TV the first game was Spurs v Forest. Hoddle gave a master class in spraying the ball all over the park and Spurs won 2-1. However when Glen Hoddle was subbed 20 minutes before the end Forest were 1-0 up.

It was bound to come to this Mike. Old men reminiscing about games played years before most of our fellow readers of this were born.

yes I have ( like you I imagine ) a bloody marvellous back catalogue and today as a cup final preamble I watched the Chelsea side that I used to watch from the Shed end in my University days. The chant prevalent then was “ Osgood is good “ - I’d forgotten until today just how good he was. I was fortunate indeed standing behind Bonnetti and Co all those years ago. Why were there so many good games then and still so many dreadful referees

North London Exile wrote: May 15th, 2022, 2:21 pm

lowandhard wrote: May 14th, 2022, 4:27 pm

Stan A. Einstein wrote: May 14th, 2022, 2:02 pm

lowandhard wrote: May 14th, 2022, 1:38 pm

Well, there’s an element of truth in what you say perhaps but he’s a very young man and all young men make mistakes. The rôle of older and supposedly wiser men who mentor and manage them is to guide them onto a wiser path. In my opinion the lad had heaps of talent and to squander his and Dom Jefferies talents in short order is profligacy on a grand scale. I well remember a newspaper headline early in one young player’s career that read “ there’s a question mark over Hoddle “ after p!ssing myself laughing at the writer’s stupidity, I wondered what the f¥cking question might have been! The untalented always seem willing to despise the talented.

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the pm. I'll reply tomorrow. Too much of the old footie today. Cup final followed by Sligo v St Patrick's Athletic. A few quick points from this post.

Quite right about young men making mistakes. Although I forget who pointed out that the follies of youth are as nothing compared to the follies of age. As we both know a point not entirely without merit.

Agree again re the untalented despise those with talent. Then again knowing how much certain posters on here clearly despise me I suppose I would.

However I remember the best part of 40 years ago spending an entire evening in a pub with a Spurs supporting friend debating Glen Hoddle. My views haven't changed much since. My friend was of the view that Hoddle was just about perfect. My view was that he was exceptionally talented and would walk into any team. But I also though for someone with his talent he perhaps he didn't impose himself on games quite as much as he should have.

I recall when football was first shown live on TV the first game was Spurs v Forest. Hoddle gave a master class in spraying the ball all over the park and Spurs won 2-1. However when Glen Hoddle was subbed 20 minutes before the end Forest were 1-0 up.

It was bound to come to this Mike. Old men reminiscing about games played years before most of our fellow readers of this were born.

yes I have ( like you I imagine ) a bloody marvellous back catalogue and today as a cup final preamble I watched the Chelsea side that I used to watch from the Shed end in my University days. The chant prevalent then was “ Osgood is good “ - I’d forgotten until today just how good he was. I was fortunate indeed standing behind Bonnetti and Co all those years ago. Why were there so many good games then and still so many dreadful referees

I tended to be selective of the games I saw as a schoolboy Chelsea supporter (parental control and exams), but one I was privileged to attend (along with 66000 others!) at the Bridge was a Second Division promotion battle between Chelsea and Stoke City in April 1963, which featured Stanley Matthews at the age of 48 [eat your heart out, Kevin Ellison). Stoke won, but Chelsea returned to the First Division by beating Sunderland the following week. Years later, David Lacey wrote an appreciative account of that match in The Guardian. It would be great if anyone could dig out footage of the encounter. Everything was still black and white in those days! By the time of the Osgood era, I was marooned up in Colchester making trouble as a student.

Percy plunkett wrote: May 15th, 2022, 12:37 pm

lowandhard wrote: May 14th, 2022, 4:43 pm

Percy plunkett wrote: May 14th, 2022, 3:13 pm

lowandhard wrote: May 14th, 2022, 1:38 pm

Justanordinaryfan wrote: May 14th, 2022, 12:54 pm I would bet that there’s something quite not right with Mr Livermore, to disappear so suddenly off the radar and not reappear, then be released. Sometimes the player has to help himself …. Clubs can only do so much.

Well, there’s an element of truth in what you say perhaps but he’s a very young man and all young men make mistakes. The rôle of older and supposedly wiser men who mentor and manage them is to guide them onto a wiser path. In my opinion the lad had heaps of talent and to squander his and Dom Jefferies talents in short order is profligacy on a grand scale. I well remember a newspaper headline early in one young player’s career that read “ there’s a question mark over Hoddle “ after p!ssing myself laughing at the writer’s stupidity, I wondered what the f¥cking question might have been! The untalented always seem willing to despise the talented.

The first time I saw Livermore was on ifollow at Plymouth.He wanted the ball and sprayed some lovely passes,put in tackles then,made himself available for the next pass.That was his debut and,he did that every time I saw him,at Ipswich and home to Orient.He was said to be injured yet,I saw him playing for the academy and,running the show as usual.His last game for the academy,he played in a back three and was winning headers against a 6 foot guy,not bad for a guy about 5 foot.There are rumours that he didn’t train hard enough,do we want Training Ground Internationals or,someone who can turn it on during match days,it’s the latter for me but it seems JR wants stats from girls crop tops that the players must wear in order to get the desired mileage in instead of talent.

Yes, I feared that. Fortunately, football isn’t played on a stats sheet and how many possible Maradonnas were discarded because of their stature, boredom with training or social misbehaviours I wonder. Genius doesn’t always enjoy strict regimes or the rules of boring line managers, many of us have suffered those eh? The great managers see human individuals not just statistics and work with them to help them develop to the best of their abilities and then use them wisely.

A fine example,Mckirdy,just scored for Swindon,that makes it 23 I think.A big attitude problem so Flynny,and others,left him alone and brought in journeymen who worked hard in training and were model professionals but,they only score a couple of goals a season.

Percy plunkett wrote: May 15th, 2022, 12:37 pm A fine example,Mckirdy,just scored for Swindon,that makes it 23 I think.A big attitude problem so Flynny,and others,left him alone

lowandhard wrote: May 16th, 2022, 12:14 am

Percy plunkett wrote: May 15th, 2022, 12:37 pm

lowandhard wrote: May 14th, 2022, 4:43 pm

Percy plunkett wrote: May 14th, 2022, 3:13 pm

lowandhard wrote: May 14th, 2022, 1:38 pm

Justanordinaryfan wrote: May 14th, 2022, 12:54 pm I would bet that there’s something quite not right with Mr Livermore, to disappear so suddenly off the radar and not reappear, then be released. Sometimes the player has to help himself …. Clubs can only do so much.

Well, there’s an element of truth in what you say perhaps but he’s a very young man and all young men make mistakes. The rôle of older and supposedly wiser men who mentor and manage them is to guide them onto a wiser path. In my opinion the lad had heaps of talent and to squander his and Dom Jefferies talents in short order is profligacy on a grand scale. I well remember a newspaper headline early in one young player’s career that read “ there’s a question mark over Hoddle “ after p!ssing myself laughing at the writer’s stupidity, I wondered what the f¥cking question might have been! The untalented always seem willing to despise the talented.

The first time I saw Livermore was on ifollow at Plymouth.He wanted the ball and sprayed some lovely passes,put in tackles then,made himself available for the next pass.That was his debut and,he did that every time I saw him,at Ipswich and home to Orient.He was said to be injured yet,I saw him playing for the academy and,running the show as usual.His last game for the academy,he played in a back three and was winning headers against a 6 foot guy,not bad for a guy about 5 foot.There are rumours that he didn’t train hard enough,do we want Training Ground Internationals or,someone who can turn it on during match days,it’s the latter for me but it seems JR wants stats from girls crop tops that the players must wear in order to get the desired mileage in instead of talent.

Yes, I feared that. Fortunately, football isn’t played on a stats sheet and how many possible Maradonnas were discarded because of their stature, boredom with training or social misbehaviours I wonder. Genius doesn’t always enjoy strict regimes or the rules of boring line managers, many of us have suffered those eh? The great managers see human individuals not just statistics and work with them to help them develop to the best of their abilities and then use them wisely.

A fine example,Mckirdy,just scored for Swindon,that makes it 23 I think.A big attitude problem so Flynny,and others,left him alone and brought in journeymen who worked hard in training and were model professionals but,they only score a couple of goals a season.

Yes, he had a good game. Another one we missed.

DeePeeNCAFC wrote: May 3rd, 2022, 8:28 pm I’ll bare my ar$e in Burton’s shop window if JR is even being seriously considered. It’s far more likely to be Ainsworth.