Dogger wrote: June 14th, 2022, 11:19 pm Apologies for resurrecting this thread, but it seems to have disappeared. Tonight in the Nations League we had English fans calling Hungary & their fans racist. True, well quite possibly. Wales took the knee against the Netherlands, who chose not to. Now the Netherlands have far more BAME players than Wales do & yet we are taking the knee. Critics of Hungary say they don’t take the knee because they are Eastern European. If you’ve ever been there, they will tell you they are at the very centre of Europe & not Eastern at all. Now the Netherlands is certainly a Western European nation & far more liberal than the UK & they don’t take the knee. So can we now finally drop this virtue-signalling nonsense & keep politics out of football for ever.

Micheal wrote: June 15th, 2022, 12:14 pm It will be gone for Qatar hypocritical virtue signalling of the highest order

UPTHEPORT wrote: June 15th, 2022, 12:01 pm It's 8 seconds if the players want to do it respect it if they don't respect that

CathedralCounty wrote: June 15th, 2022, 12:25 pm

UPTHEPORT wrote: June 15th, 2022, 12:01 pm It's 8 seconds if the players want to do it respect it if they don't respect that

BUT the issue is players are de facto obliged to do it - it’s become an 'official' protest (and oxymoron I know) - as has rainbow laces, etc. the 'football authorities'*, the media, *some* of the twitter mob – condemn/fine/sack players who do not want to follow the obligatory signalling and again in the main think these gestures started from a good place although now they have become a somewhat browbeating stick with which to beat the [perceived] ‘thuggish and Neanderthal football fans’ and we simply do not see the level/length/officially sanctioned gestures in any other sporting codes implying we as ‘football fans’ somehow need to be re-educated…

*The self-same authorities who among other egregious and immoral actions allow Newcastle United to be taken over by [in mine and many’ s view] an abhorrent regime and a world cup to take place in [in mine and many’ s view] an abhorrent regime

Micheal wrote: June 15th, 2022, 12:14 pm It will be gone for Qatar hypocritical virtue signalling of the highest order

CathedralCounty wrote: June 15th, 2022, 10:59 am

Dogger wrote: June 14th, 2022, 11:19 pm Apologies for resurrecting this thread, but it seems to have disappeared. Tonight in the Nations League we had English fans calling Hungary & their fans racist. True, well quite possibly. Wales took the knee against the Netherlands, who chose not to. Now the Netherlands have far more BAME players than Wales do & yet we are taking the knee. Critics of Hungary say they don’t take the knee because they are Eastern European. If you’ve ever been there, they will tell you they are at the very centre of Europe & not Eastern at all. Now the Netherlands is certainly a Western European nation & far more liberal than the UK & they don’t take the knee. So can we now finally drop this virtue-signalling nonsense & keep politics out of football for ever.

I think this was probably pulled because it got too much and mud slinging started to occur - but on your point agreed - all arguments for and against aside its now run its course - and as I have said before if the players taking the knee really want to help BAME/any youngsters who are struggling they could donate a % of their salary to charities working with them [say BAME young people]...

Chepstow'sFine wrote: June 15th, 2022, 1:21 pm

I agree with you, I think it's run it's course. I was never happy with football getting into bed with such a dodgy organisation as BLM. On the players thing though, I think you'd be surprised how many elite level players (and players further down the leagues) have initiatives for kids in their local communities etc. some organised by themselves, others by the clubs themselves. Footballers get a bad rep because they're paid a lot but a lot of them do give back.

Chepstow'sFine wrote: June 15th, 2022, 1:21 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: June 15th, 2022, 10:59 am

Dogger wrote: June 14th, 2022, 11:19 pm Apologies for resurrecting this thread, but it seems to have disappeared. Tonight in the Nations League we had English fans calling Hungary & their fans racist. True, well quite possibly. Wales took the knee against the Netherlands, who chose not to. Now the Netherlands have far more BAME players than Wales do & yet we are taking the knee. Critics of Hungary say they don’t take the knee because they are Eastern European. If you’ve ever been there, they will tell you they are at the very centre of Europe & not Eastern at all. Now the Netherlands is certainly a Western European nation & far more liberal than the UK & they don’t take the knee. So can we now finally drop this virtue-signalling nonsense & keep politics out of football for ever.

I think this was probably pulled because it got too much and mud slinging started to occur - but on your point agreed - all arguments for and against aside its now run its course - and as I have said before if the players taking the knee really want to help BAME/any youngsters who are struggling they could donate a % of their salary to charities working with them [say BAME young people]...

I agree with you, I think it's run it's course. I was never happy with football getting into bed with such a dodgy organisation as BLM. On the players thing though, I think you'd be surprised how many elite level players (and players further down the leagues) have initiatives for kids in their local communities etc. some organised by themselves, others by the clubs themselves. Footballers get a bad rep because they're paid a lot but many of them do give back.

Stan A. Einstein wrote: June 15th, 2022, 1:31 pm

Chepstow'sFine wrote: June 15th, 2022, 1:21 pm

I agree with you, I think it's run it's course. I was never happy with football getting into bed with such a dodgy organisation as BLM. On the players thing though, I think you'd be surprised how many elite level players (and players further down the leagues) have initiatives for kids in their local communities etc. some organised by themselves, others by the clubs themselves. Footballers get a bad rep because they're paid a lot but a lot of them do give back.

Your post pretty much sums up my analysis. I don't think there is anything dodgy about BLM. They have my full support. You on the other hand take a different view. And that's the point. If we were on a political chat room, at political hustings, or BBC's question time for that matter then we could indeed should argue. But at a football match, I just want to see a game of football. Political gestures have nothing to do with football, whether or not I agree with the politics behind the gesture is neither here nor there.