Vive la différence! What I take from it is that this incident has been blown out of all proportion but there may be a reason for that which I’ll address shortly.
Firstly, why not just call out any uncomfortable behaviour by making it extremely clear immediately that you’re uncomfortable with what is happening? If the player didn’t like the situation why didn’t she make that clear to him there and then, a simple shout or gesture would have been seen by the world as a rejection of his kiss. If somebody did something to me that I objected to, they’d know pretty damn quickly and that would be a normal response in my estimation.
To come back to that underlying reason. It could well be that the underlying tensions underlying the treatment of Spanish women footballers has been a simmering pot for a long time now and that the quantum of heat provided by that unsolicited kiss has caused it to boil over.
In short, he was a fool to do what he did and may or may not have a history of such behaviour, the woman in question had a right to be outraged by his action but should have made that clear immediately and unless she wanted to pursue it nothing else was required. It seems the incident is merely the straw that broke the camel’s back and the relationship between men and women’s football in Spain will now become a media circus. It’s a shame given the much lauded success but perhaps the situation needed to be sorted as it’s been ongoing for at least a year it seems.

CathedralCounty wrote: August 27th, 2023, 9:27 am

DT1892 wrote: August 27th, 2023, 12:30 am

CathedralCounty wrote: August 26th, 2023, 2:34 pm

JonD wrote: August 26th, 2023, 1:57 pm The Spanish Football Federation's handling of this "snog the scorer" controversy is only going to end one way. But boy are they making a meal of it.

All seems just a little bit too convenient though an unpopular president gets himself stitched up? There is more to this I think

Even if he DID wilfully do it it was hardly the crime of the century.

False feminism sums it up, you have the Taliban who won’t even allow women out of their houses unaccompanied then you have a clumsy over excited FA president immediately after his country has just won a World Cup I know where my focus is and it’s not on some uncharitable sourpusses.

Just because other people have it worse, it doesn't mean that someone can't complain about something.

Indeed but this has gone way beyond a “complaint” and I have little sympathy with either side now, as much as I’m commenting here and taking the bait, I’m sick of hearing about this and to my point on the Taliban if the exiled Afghan women’s team had a tiny percentage of the coverage this overblown “incident” has received they would be overjoyed.

It’s not helping women’s football or women in general and is just wasted effort egged on by people who have little real interest in either.

Perhaps the President of the Spanish FA should've decided not to assault one of the players in front of millions at a World Cup Final.

If you are as sympathetic towards him and the approach he has taken since, as you are with the woman who was potentially assaulted at the biggest moment of her career, in front of millions, then I think that says it all.

lowandhard wrote: August 27th, 2023, 12:10 pm Vive la différence! What I take from it is that this incident has been blown out of all proportion but there may be a reason for that which I’ll address shortly.
Firstly, why not just call out any uncomfortable behaviour by making it extremely clear immediately that you’re uncomfortable with what is happening? If the player didn’t like the situation why didn’t she make that clear to him there and then, a simple shout or gesture would have been seen by the world as a rejection of his kiss. If somebody did something to me that I objected to, they’d know pretty damn quickly and that would be a normal response in my estimation.
To come back to that underlying reason. It could well be that the underlying tensions underlying the treatment of Spanish women footballers has been a simmering pot for a long time now and that the quantum of heat provided by that unsolicited kiss has caused it to boil over.
In short, he was a fool to do what he did and may or may not have a history of such behaviour, the woman in question had a right to be outraged by his action but should have made that clear immediately and unless she wanted to pursue it nothing else was required. It seems the incident is merely the straw that broke the camel’s back and the relationship between men and women’s football in Spain will now become a media circus. It’s a shame given the much lauded success but perhaps the situation needed to be sorted as it’s been ongoing for at least a year it seems.

Freezing is a normal human response when facing a potentially stressful situation, particularly when you are the 'less powerful' party in the situation. It's not just fight or flight.

DT1892 wrote: August 27th, 2023, 12:38 pm

lowandhard wrote: August 27th, 2023, 12:10 pm Vive la différence! What I take from it is that this incident has been blown out of all proportion but there may be a reason for that which I’ll address shortly.
Firstly, why not just call out any uncomfortable behaviour by making it extremely clear immediately that you’re uncomfortable with what is happening? If the player didn’t like the situation why didn’t she make that clear to him there and then, a simple shout or gesture would have been seen by the world as a rejection of his kiss. If somebody did something to me that I objected to, they’d know pretty damn quickly and that would be a normal response in my estimation.
To come back to that underlying reason. It could well be that the underlying tensions underlying the treatment of Spanish women footballers has been a simmering pot for a long time now and that the quantum of heat provided by that unsolicited kiss has caused it to boil over.
In short, he was a fool to do what he did and may or may not have a history of such behaviour, the woman in question had a right to be outraged by his action but should have made that clear immediately and unless she wanted to pursue it nothing else was required. It seems the incident is merely the straw that broke the camel’s back and the relationship between men and women’s football in Spain will now become a media circus. It’s a shame given the much lauded success but perhaps the situation needed to be sorted as it’s been ongoing for at least a year it seems.

Freezing is a normal human response when facing a potentially stressful situation, particularly when you are the 'less powerful' party in the situation. It's not just fight or flight.

Yes, you’re correct. I should have considered that.

DT1892 wrote: August 27th, 2023, 12:38 pm

lowandhard wrote: August 27th, 2023, 12:10 pm Vive la différence! What I take from it is that this incident has been blown out of all proportion but there may be a reason for that which I’ll address shortly.
Firstly, why not just call out any uncomfortable behaviour by making it extremely clear immediately that you’re uncomfortable with what is happening? If the player didn’t like the situation why didn’t she make that clear to him there and then, a simple shout or gesture would have been seen by the world as a rejection of his kiss. If somebody did something to me that I objected to, they’d know pretty damn quickly and that would be a normal response in my estimation.
To come back to that underlying reason. It could well be that the underlying tensions underlying the treatment of Spanish women footballers has been a simmering pot for a long time now and that the quantum of heat provided by that unsolicited kiss has caused it to boil over.
In short, he was a fool to do what he did and may or may not have a history of such behaviour, the woman in question had a right to be outraged by his action but should have made that clear immediately and unless she wanted to pursue it nothing else was required. It seems the incident is merely the straw that broke the camel’s back and the relationship between men and women’s football in Spain will now become a media circus. It’s a shame given the much lauded success but perhaps the situation needed to be sorted as it’s been ongoing for at least a year it seems.

Freezing is a normal human response when facing a potentially stressful situation, particularly when you are the 'less powerful' party in the situation. It's not just fight or flight.

Yes, you’re correct. I should have considered that.

DT1892 wrote: August 27th, 2023, 12:33 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: August 27th, 2023, 9:27 am

DT1892 wrote: August 27th, 2023, 12:30 am

CathedralCounty wrote: August 26th, 2023, 2:34 pm

JonD wrote: August 26th, 2023, 1:57 pm The Spanish Football Federation's handling of this "snog the scorer" controversy is only going to end one way. But boy are they making a meal of it.

All seems just a little bit too convenient though an unpopular president gets himself stitched up? There is more to this I think

Even if he DID wilfully do it it was hardly the crime of the century.

False feminism sums it up, you have the Taliban who won’t even allow women out of their houses unaccompanied then you have a clumsy over excited FA president immediately after his country has just won a World Cup I know where my focus is and it’s not on some uncharitable sourpusses.

Just because other people have it worse, it doesn't mean that someone can't complain about something.

Indeed but this has gone way beyond a “complaint” and I have little sympathy with either side now, as much as I’m commenting here and taking the bait, I’m sick of hearing about this and to my point on the Taliban if the exiled Afghan women’s team had a tiny percentage of the coverage this overblown “incident” has received they would be overjoyed.

It’s not helping women’s football or women in general and is just wasted effort egged on by people who have little real interest in either.

Perhaps the President of the Spanish FA should've decided not to assault one of the players in front of millions at a World Cup Final.

If you are as sympathetic towards him and the approach he has taken since, as you are with the woman who was potentially assaulted at the biggest moment of her career, in front of millions, then I think that says it all.

I have no particular sympathy with the president (happy for you to signpost where I’ve supported him), to echo myself and a subsequent poster the actions have been blown out of all proportion and exploited by grievance feminists and virtue signallers who in the 99% have not shown any interest in women’s football before and likely will not since.

I would agree with you that it’s easier said than done to object in such a scenario at the time BUT this could have been far more swiftly dealt with and parked (i.e., he has been made aware of his errors and he and the player concerned have now agreed the matter will be dealt with by internal proceedings which will take place after the period of celebrations) and in my view the guiltiest are those who have made political hay out of this (“mr president” is clearly a divisive figure and was prior to this and there was obviously a LOT of issues and in/around the squad so this incident is a gift on which to hang those).

CathedralCounty wrote: August 27th, 2023, 1:10 pmI have no particular sympathy with the president (happy for you to signpost where I’ve supported him), to echo myself and a subsequent poster the actions have been blown out of all proportion

I haven't suggested that. You said that you "have little sympathy with either side now".

and exploited by grievance feminists and virtue signallers who in the 99% have not shown any interest in women’s football before and likely will not since.

Also known as people who believe that assault is wrong.

You don't have to have spent every week in the stands of a women's football game to see what happened was wrong. It has nothing to do with women's football and more to do with how women are treated in general. That is why the reaction has been so fierce.

I would agree with you that it’s easier said than done to object in such a scenario at the time BUT this could have been far more swiftly dealt with and parked (i.e., he has been made aware of his errors and he and the player concerned have now agreed the matter will be dealt with by internal proceedings which will take place after the period of celebrations)

I agree, it could and should have been dealt with swiftly. Except he did a completely mental speech announcing he wasn't resigning, called her a liar, and got the RFEF to publicly state that they would pursue legal action against her. She said she did not consent. Again, it's on him.

and in my view the guiltiest are those who have made political hay out of this (“mr president” is clearly a divisive figure and was prior to this and there was obviously a LOT of issues and in/around the squad so this incident is a gift on which to hang those).

Perhaps this incident was the straw that broke the camel's back? Or maybe he finally showed his hand in front of millions around the world?

DT1892 wrote: August 27th, 2023, 2:18 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: August 27th, 2023, 1:10 pmI have no particular sympathy with the president (happy for you to signpost where I’ve supported him), to echo myself and a subsequent poster the actions have been blown out of all proportion

I haven't suggested that. You said that you "have little sympathy with either side now".

and exploited by grievance feminists and virtue signallers who in the 99% have not shown any interest in women’s football before and likely will not since.

Also known as people who believe that assault is wrong.

You don't have to have spent every week in the stands of a women's football game to see what happened was wrong. It has nothing to do with women's football and more to do with how women are treated in general. That is why the reaction has been so fierce.

I would agree with you that it’s easier said than done to object in such a scenario at the time BUT this could have been far more swiftly dealt with and parked (i.e., he has been made aware of his errors and he and the player concerned have now agreed the matter will be dealt with by internal proceedings which will take place after the period of celebrations)

I agree, it could and should have been dealt with swiftly. Except he did a completely mental speech announcing he wasn't resigning, called her a liar, and got the RFEF to publicly state that they would pursue legal action against her. She said she did not consent. Again, it's on him.

and in my view the guiltiest are those who have made political hay out of this (“mr president” is clearly a divisive figure and was prior to this and there was obviously a LOT of issues and in/around the squad so this incident is a gift on which to hang those).

Perhaps this incident was the straw that broke the camel's back? Or maybe he finally showed his hand in front of millions around the world?

Lots to unpack there, and repeating my case won't alter your position, sufficient to say we have different views (both with some merit) and that's OK this is a forum for debate after all.

I’ll leave you with the Wales women’s fixtures so you can show your support for women in a meaningful way https://faw.cymru/match-centre/

CathedralCounty wrote: August 27th, 2023, 2:32 pm

DT1892 wrote: August 27th, 2023, 2:18 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: August 27th, 2023, 1:10 pmI have no particular sympathy with the president (happy for you to signpost where I’ve supported him), to echo myself and a subsequent poster the actions have been blown out of all proportion

I haven't suggested that. You said that you "have little sympathy with either side now".

and exploited by grievance feminists and virtue signallers who in the 99% have not shown any interest in women’s football before and likely will not since.

Also known as people who believe that assault is wrong.

You don't have to have spent every week in the stands of a women's football game to see what happened was wrong. It has nothing to do with women's football and more to do with how women are treated in general. That is why the reaction has been so fierce.

I would agree with you that it’s easier said than done to object in such a scenario at the time BUT this could have been far more swiftly dealt with and parked (i.e., he has been made aware of his errors and he and the player concerned have now agreed the matter will be dealt with by internal proceedings which will take place after the period of celebrations)

I agree, it could and should have been dealt with swiftly. Except he did a completely mental speech announcing he wasn't resigning, called her a liar, and got the RFEF to publicly state that they would pursue legal action against her. She said she did not consent. Again, it's on him.

and in my view the guiltiest are those who have made political hay out of this (“mr president” is clearly a divisive figure and was prior to this and there was obviously a LOT of issues and in/around the squad so this incident is a gift on which to hang those).

Perhaps this incident was the straw that broke the camel's back? Or maybe he finally showed his hand in front of millions around the world?

Lots to unpack there, and repeating my case won't alter your position, sufficient to say we have different views (both with some merit) and that's OK this is a forum for debate after all.

I’ll leave you with the Wales women’s fixtures so you can show your support for women in a meaningful way https://faw.cymru/match-centre/

I've been coaching girl's football within and outside of schools for the best part of a decade. Please don't patronise me about supporting women.

DT1892 wrote: August 27th, 2023, 3:38 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: August 27th, 2023, 2:32 pm

DT1892 wrote: August 27th, 2023, 2:18 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: August 27th, 2023, 1:10 pmI have no particular sympathy with the president (happy for you to signpost where I’ve supported him), to echo myself and a subsequent poster the actions have been blown out of all proportion

I haven't suggested that. You said that you "have little sympathy with either side now".

and exploited by grievance feminists and virtue signallers who in the 99% have not shown any interest in women’s football before and likely will not since.

Also known as people who believe that assault is wrong.

You don't have to have spent every week in the stands of a women's football game to see what happened was wrong. It has nothing to do with women's football and more to do with how women are treated in general. That is why the reaction has been so fierce.

I would agree with you that it’s easier said than done to object in such a scenario at the time BUT this could have been far more swiftly dealt with and parked (i.e., he has been made aware of his errors and he and the player concerned have now agreed the matter will be dealt with by internal proceedings which will take place after the period of celebrations)

I agree, it could and should have been dealt with swiftly. Except he did a completely mental speech announcing he wasn't resigning, called her a liar, and got the RFEF to publicly state that they would pursue legal action against her. She said she did not consent. Again, it's on him.

and in my view the guiltiest are those who have made political hay out of this (“mr president” is clearly a divisive figure and was prior to this and there was obviously a LOT of issues and in/around the squad so this incident is a gift on which to hang those).

Perhaps this incident was the straw that broke the camel's back? Or maybe he finally showed his hand in front of millions around the world?

Lots to unpack there, and repeating my case won't alter your position, sufficient to say we have different views (both with some merit) and that's OK this is a forum for debate after all.

I’ll leave you with the Wales women’s fixtures so you can show your support for women in a meaningful way https://faw.cymru/match-centre/

I've been coaching girl's football within and outside of schools for the best part of a decade. Please don't patronise me about supporting women.

No patronisation intended things get lost in translation in text sometimes I think, regardless you have my sincere admiration for coaching, sadly you and I and others who try to genuinely support women’s and girls football, you far more than I of course (I’m more of an armchair fan and ally), are in a minority as many seem more keen to take the far softer option of highlighting the perceived or actual failings of men rather than celebrate and support women & girls football*.

Keep up the good work and best of luck to the team (s) you coach for the season ahead.

*in most cases these are mutually exclusive.

DT1892 wrote: August 27th, 2023, 3:38 pm I've been coaching girl's football within and outside of schools for the best part of a decade. Please don't patronise me about supporting women.

Huh, if you really cared about women’s sport, you’d be single-handedly trying to bring down the Taliban, you f***ing hypocrite. Anything less than that is trivial and pointless.

[/joke]

Kairdiff Exile wrote: August 27th, 2023, 3:59 pm

DT1892 wrote: August 27th, 2023, 3:38 pm I've been coaching girl's football within and outside of schools for the best part of a decade. Please don't patronise me about supporting women.

Huh, if you really cared about women’s sport, you’d be single-handedly trying to bring down the Taliban, you f***ing hypocrite. Anything less than that is trivial and pointless.

[/joke]

Funnily enough if it hadn’t been for a medical issue I may well have been donning a red cap in Afghanistan, lucky escape perhaps slings and arrows of life I guess? I grieve a tiny bit over all that but hey ho such is life. Those who did go over there deserve our utmost respect of course (albeit to coin your phrase in a f***ing Shambles of an operation if the USSR couldn’t win there why did a de facto NATO force think it could?!).

Anyway I’m going to get back to watching the women’s hundred on TV and will be hoping Keeley H can bring home a gold in the women’s 800 later on.

The quality of my Sunday roast has subsided since all this equality lark kicked off.

Sunday afternoon, and I'm home with the kids while the Mrs is down her mates on the wine.

Wrong, just plain wrong.

This is quite interesting.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_ ... atform=amp

It paints a picture of Robiales being a chap who has sailed close to the wind countless times but got used to coming out on top.

He strikes me as a thoroughly dislikeable character. Perhaps, as low and hard suggests, his chickens have come home to roost.

JonD wrote: August 27th, 2023, 6:16 pm This is quite interesting.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_ ... atform=amp

It paints a picture of Robiales being a chap who has sailed close to the wind countless times but got used to coming out on top.

He strikes me as a thoroughly dislikeable character. Perhaps, as low and hard suggests, his chickens have come home to roost.

That may well be right.

Just my take. No woman should be subjected to unwanted behaviour such as Sr Robiales was guilty of. His actions were boorish in the extreme. Should he be driven out of his job for it? Probably not. Is it a shame that the young woman didn't give him a swift knee in the nuts? Undoubtedly.