DT1892 wrote: September 13th, 2023, 6:09 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: September 13th, 2023, 9:15 amI know you’re being flippant but often when people hear unconformable truths, they act out. Listen I get that none of us want to believe that there are people capable of making false accusations or deliberately inflating a person’s actions into something they are not but sadly it happens far more than we might think usually from women/girls towards men/boys. I'm not saying it’s a massive conspiracy (it isn’t) BUT there are political/identity/charity groups and individuals which do hook onto these cases for their own ends*.

Fact is that in many professions, especially teaching men are at a high risk of false or inflated actions of abuse/misconduct (google 'falsely accused teachers' - some surveys suggest 1 in 4) and it’d be a great shame if that crept into women’s sports where men are involved - ultimately, it’d be women and girls who’d lose out if men retreated because of this issue. Again we might not care about the poor bloke wrongly labelled (to use your words) a ‘wrong un’ or worse but we should care about the women and girls who’d lose out on the help, support, refereeing & coaching of men.

Speaking as a male within this profession, I would suggest re-thinking where you get your surveys from, because that is complete nonsense.

*Its no coincidence that within a short time of the 'kiss' occurring the Spanish women’s league players went on strike for first two games of season over a pay dispute - these types of overblown 'incidents'/allegations are a gift some *some* interest groups/charities/individuals – again not a conspiracy but is a factor albeit more so for the higher profile cases.

I did a quick google and it seems that this pay dispute preceded the World Cup and the alleged assault and is centred around the minimum salary for players. Apparently, they are looking for an increase from 16,000 euros to 23,000 euros, with a further increase if further sponsorship is reached. Here's an article from March, for example:
https://www.football-espana.net/2023/03 ... e-proposal

Considering they just won a World Cup, I think they might be due a pay rise.

CathedralCounty wrote: September 13th, 2023, 8:15 pm

DT1892 wrote: September 13th, 2023, 6:09 pm

CathedralCounty wrote: September 13th, 2023, 9:15 amI know you’re being flippant but often when people hear unconformable truths, they act out. Listen I get that none of us want to believe that there are people capable of making false accusations or deliberately inflating a person’s actions into something they are not but sadly it happens far more than we might think usually from women/girls towards men/boys. I'm not saying it’s a massive conspiracy (it isn’t) BUT there are political/identity/charity groups and individuals which do hook onto these cases for their own ends*.

Fact is that in many professions, especially teaching men are at a high risk of false or inflated actions of abuse/misconduct (google 'falsely accused teachers' - some surveys suggest 1 in 4) and it’d be a great shame if that crept into women’s sports where men are involved - ultimately, it’d be women and girls who’d lose out if men retreated because of this issue. Again we might not care about the poor bloke wrongly labelled (to use your words) a ‘wrong un’ or worse but we should care about the women and girls who’d lose out on the help, support, refereeing & coaching of men.

Speaking as a male within this profession, I would suggest re-thinking where you get your surveys from, because that is complete nonsense.

*Its no coincidence that within a short time of the 'kiss' occurring the Spanish women’s league players went on strike for first two games of season over a pay dispute - these types of overblown 'incidents'/allegations are a gift some *some* interest groups/charities/individuals – again not a conspiracy but is a factor albeit more so for the higher profile cases.

I did a quick google and it seems that this pay dispute preceded the World Cup and the alleged assault and is centred around the minimum salary for players. Apparently, they are looking for an increase from 16,000 euros to 23,000 euros, with a further increase if further sponsorship is reached. Here's an article from March, for example:
https://www.football-espana.net/2023/03 ... e-proposal

Considering they just won a World Cup, I think they might be due a pay rise.

On the false allegations my source was the reputable Times Educational Supplement no less, loads more out there but agreed of course all surveys have their flaws https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/gener ... nts-pupils even if it were much lower [say] 1 in 10 it’s still a very real risk.

On the pay dispute regardless of when it started the timing of the “incident” was a gift, on whether the bog standard division 2 players “deserve” a pay rise because 30 of their [far better and more marketable] peers won a World Cup is debatable, and YES I would say that if they were men.

CathedralCounty wrote: September 13th, 2023, 2:01 pm

JonD wrote: September 13th, 2023, 1:32 pm

Chepstow'sFine wrote: September 13th, 2023, 10:33 am I believe in Blackstone's ratio - 'Better that 10 guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer' and I don't think we have that right now in the UK criminal justice system.

Playing devil's advocate. If that philosophy were applied to our forthcoming speed limit cars would be shuffling around at 5mph. There HAS to be a balance.

'Blackstone's ratio' - if applied to your analogy 10 cars would be doing 28 mph and get away with it but better that than the one doing 20.000001 mph getting 'done' (its a bad analogy as speeding is a civil offence and much easier to prove than almost any other offence).

My point sits a little outside 'Blackstone's ratio' in that its more about not putting men off working with women's sports (as they have been in say teaching - due to the prevalence of false/overblown allegations) as much as it is about false/overblown allegations being made.